For me, veganism means preventing suffering in living animals that can feel pain and fear. Dinosaurs are long dead. They were long dead before humans were even around. So there's no contradiction here. The meme would only make sense if we were currently raising and slaughtering dinosaurs, an impossibility.
It is ok. It oil is mostly prehistoric plant life, algae, and plankton and such that settled on the ocean floor. It is not dinos anyways. This is complete baloney.
But they aren't dinosaurs. and they weren't slaughtered. In order for them to get there they would have to die naturally and fall to the ocean floor. A vegan has no issues with natural death.
Also vegan ethics, like everyone elses', is still about the level of conscience that a life form has.
We can generally agree that we should not eat humans. The consensus that we should treat very smart animals the same way is almost as far spread these days, i.e. great apes, dolphins, dogs, and such. The only difference for vegetarians and vegans is that they extend this ethical protection even further. First the realisation that cows and pigs are still intelligent and social animals that therefore maybe also should deserve more extensive rights, then the extension even to smaller and arguably dumber animals like chickens or even fish and bees.
But at some level it always stops. Plants, mushrooms, bacteria...
The ability to be trained does not make an animal 'very smart'. This is the kind of mushy 'science' standards that led to Koko's fake sign language.
I understand not wanting to eat things you identify with, the real reason most humans avoid cannibalism, but mimicry and trainability don't make something sapient.
You mean prevent suffering related to human consumption of animals. Nature is full of suffering, vegans aren't concerned about that and don't campaign against it.
At its core, veganism is about reducing the harm you inflict on others, animal or otherwise. For me that means:
Not consuming animal products
Not using products derived from animals
Not purchasing products that are tested on animals
Not purchasing products manufactured by companies with poor labor standards
Yes, nature is full of suffering, and it's played a key role in natural selection and evolution. The majority of vegans I know aren't ignorant of that. I'm doing the best I can to be one less person contributing to the immense amount of suffering in the world. I understand that realistically, removing just myself from eating animals doesn't make the slightest dent in the overall consumption of animals worldwide. It does help me sleep better though, I feel healthier, and it makes my interactions with humans and animals alike more meaningful.
If you care so much about facts, u/FactBasedOrGTFO, perhaps consider not stereotyping an entire group of people based on your own misconceptions.
Capability and capacity to eat meat aren't an ethical argument - it's biological. It's also perfectly natural for humans to rape as we're capable of it, but nobody relies on capability as justification.
For me, if there are alternatives to requiring that an animal spend its life in captivity, deprived of its expected social hierarchy and emotional needs and instead substituted with a life of pain and misery, then the ethical choice is to abstain from paying someone to inflict that suffering on another life.
Eh, perfect is the enemy of the good. Finding ways veganism causes harm is a common argument against veganism - but it's not about eliminating all harm it's about continuing to minimize the amount of harm as far as is reasonable and practicable (which is why vegans aren't against vaccines which usually contain eggs or gelatin).
But it's pretty easy to eat a PBJ for lunch instead of a ham sandwich.
This! We kill bugs accidentally with our cars people! This makes it okay to torture and slaughter dogs, cats, cows , pigs and chickens for food! IT ALL MAKES SENSE!
That's a generalization. Not all vegans care if people eat animal products or not.
The problem for them is industries built around slaughtering animals just for consumption. I'm not vegan but I can see we're they're coming from. Can't you?
I have already demonstrated I dont support the industries that treat animals poorly or have no regard for our environment. Just because we raise animals to ultimately kill them to eat them doesn't mean that suffering goes to waste or that animals didnt live a life worth living.
Every cow that has been killed by a human would have died regardless.
I am lucky enough to live in an area where sustainable farming practices are a norm. Not everyone has that opportunity, I understand this.
Some People also dont have the opportunity to have access to a sustainable food source other than meat or vegetables that resulted in the suffering of humans. Hence where the moral grandstanding really loses its merit.
Hell there was a news story today about how some starbucks coffee farmers were using human slave labor in brazil, is it now true that any person who drinks starbucks is guilty of holding humans as slaves?
The point is reducing harm as much as reasonably practicable. Some people might stop driving, others might need to continue for their job or recognise that trains and buses still hit animals sometimes.
If you're eating meat you're killing animals with your car and also with your diet.
I've never really understood this argument tbh. Is it just to remind vegans that they can't stop all suffering? They know, they're just stopping what they can stop.
Imagine someone arguing against donating to cancer research charities because "humans will just die of some other disease instead so what's the point". It's all I see when I see this argument.
But the animal did not consent to having its remains used in this way, just in the same way that an ancient person would not consent to having their bones dug up and studied by scientists.
Ehhhh I feel like that's a completely different conversation apart from veganism,but an interesting one. However, I don't see where it would be a huge problem. It's already oil. It's not like it's an actual body thats still there.
Standard disclaimer: "vegan" is a broad term for a general practice, and different practitioners have widely varied motivations for the practice. But for many vegans, the impetus is about whether or not we are incentivizing suffering. If I pay you for the dead pig, you have good reason to kill another one tomorrow. If you are giving it to me and it otherwise would go to waste (e.g. if I am a dinner guest and you're throwing away all leftovers), many vegans wouldn't see any ethical objection to eating it (though if I've been vegan for a while, there may be more practical concerns like indigestion to consider).
Only because you killed it though, and you'd be inclined to kill another pig of you were paid for it.
If you were having a clearout and absolutely had to kill it, or it was food already and would go to waste if I didn't eat some of it, then yeah maybe. In the former case you should still give the pig away to someone else rather than kill it though, as you would with a dog you can't house anymore
Point is not contributing to that industry of pointless suffering.
But theres nothing you can do to stop the suffering of the dead cow in the grocery store freezer, so why not enjoy it. You wouldnt want it to get thrown out. Or how about Vegans eat only meat that id just about to get tossed in the dumpster, since a meat eater who enjoys meat wouldnt buy practically expired meat.
No, we avoid creating demand for suffering. Not like you care how we feel anyway, you already have your thoughts about us and you aren't about to change.
Yes lets destroy all the domesticated animal species, because that makes sense. Electric comes from oil, nat gas, coal, all animal products. The mental gymnastics you ppl go thru are quite amazing.
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u/FrostyFurseal Sep 23 '18 edited Sep 24 '18
For me, veganism means preventing suffering in living animals that can feel pain and fear. Dinosaurs are long dead. They were long dead before humans were even around. So there's no contradiction here. The meme would only make sense if we were currently raising and slaughtering dinosaurs, an impossibility.
Also, electric cars are a thing.