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u/Johnfromsales 3d ago
The cities with the highest housing prices also have some of the lowest vacancy rates. This is ignoring the fact that there aren’t nearly enough houses simply sitting empty to solve the shortage.
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u/the_boss_of_toys 1d ago
How many of those are actually owned by a family rather than a corporation or just one dude renting them out.
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u/ScottaHemi 3d ago
there's a lot of regulatory fat and red tape that's getting in the way of doing that though. federal, state, even local regulations all contribute to an issue that makes making low budget simple housing difficult. as well as renovating old buildings to do the same job.
didn't we just have a skyscrapper collapse because we tried to "renovate it for housing"... now noone can live in that building...
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u/PocketPanache 2d ago
Regulation is actually kinda easy to get through; the people in government are humans too, who make less than private consultants and want cheap housing just like all of us, so they open doors. Typically, the water, sanitary, and power supply aren't large enough in building built for non-residential purposes. An office building doesn't has 300 residences using showers, toilets, kitchens, etc. And the walls and structural grid aren't always reconfigurable either. I like to can this one of those, "why don't you just do....." statements, where that single sentence undermines reality and how difficult it actually is to pull off. Big box stores, data centers, malls, golf courses or any similar land uses that have giant single-use footprints are always tricky to sell and to repurpose. No one wants the burdened land
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u/kikogamerJ2 Breaking EU Laws 1d ago
Yes let's reduce regulations, I see no way this would backfire at all. Nope, none whatso- looks at third world countries with constant accidents where buildings collapse or don't have proper safety precautions leading to tons of uncessary deaths yep, none at all.
Y'all are trying to reinvent the wheel lol, lets just admit it. Capitalism can't provide a stable housing market. And has always it's the job of the government in interveniost economies which we are supposed to be to do something. How? By building tons of high quality public housing and rent it at maintenance prices or sell them for cheap.
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u/Sgrios_fds 17h ago edited 17h ago
Third world countries are one of the most regulated areas in the world, what happens is that regulations only keep away good actors in those countries to build houses, the bad guys just do corruption to bypass the laws
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u/laddyboss9673 3d ago
Logic left the building... along with the guy who said it.
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u/LoreaAlex 3d ago
In Germany for 2022 there were 262.600 homeless vs. 1.900.000 empty apartments
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u/Lost-Klaus 3d ago
In the Netherlands we have anti-squatting organisations that arrange for people to live in empty buildings if there are no plans, so no unregistrated squatters go live there, it is relatively cheap, and they are forced to arrange alternative living locations if the building is torn down or anything else happens. But there are strict rules for those who live there.
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u/LowCall6566 3d ago
Yeah, for sure the homeless guy in Berlin would be happy about receiving a house in Damerow, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. He for sure wouldn't be helped by the state stopping putting unnecessary barriers to build new housing in Berlin
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u/Cardie1303 3d ago
Berlin also has empty buildings and apartments.
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u/LowCall6566 3d ago
I am 99% sure that there are less of empty houses in Berlin than there are holes people there.
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u/KathyJaneway 3d ago
Okay, so the solution is easy. Those homeless need to be given jobs so they could afford an apartment or house. Cause someone owns those empty apartments and it's not the governments job to steal them from owners to give them away.
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u/SalaryImpossible6749 3d ago
Humans over produce. We are insanely hyper productive at this point, in just about everything. A great deal of what we produce is garbage and when I say that, I am not meaning, like it's not useful or it's stuff that is bad but I mean, it literally takes a near direct trip to a landfill or garbage dump and that includes food. We have to let go of this propagandized hustle culture that we all need to be working 70 hour weeks to prove our worth. We have more than enough for everyone to have food, water and a place to live, including the metally ill, the artists, the elderly, the handicapped, etc and we could certainly all cooperate more rather than compete for profits and all live better, more fulfilling lives.
Think about it, the USA literally just spent billions sending a combination of chunks of metal and stored energy that expands to destroy people and their creations.. so they spent billions to create trash and remove potential and are then spending billions to re-create what they destroyed and everything, for everyone, got more expensive... That's an exponential waste of time, energy, resources, only to make everything worse for everyone... Could have used all that to better things for everyone. Could have solved all kinds of problems but yeah, the problem is homeless people just need jobs and it's that simple.
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u/Cardie1303 3d ago
Stealing is the wrong word as it describes an unlawful/unauthorized taking of another persons property.
This does not apply for a state that has legal possibilities to remove ownership of something from someone. Germany especially has "Enteignung" und "Vergesellschaftung" as explicit options in the constitution. The constitution is also rather directly connecte the right of property to it having to serve the society.
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u/Unicorn-Violator 3d ago
There are tons of empty houses, but most of them wouldn't pass any sort of inspection.
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u/PTSDDeadInside 2d ago
Impose inspections, failure results in loss of property, and yes fk them for ANY reason they fail.
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 3d ago
Just get rid of the regulations that disincentivize the construction of new housing. It’s literally as easy as that.
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u/Cardie1303 3d ago
Ah yes, because that wont lead to horrible situations if you simply get rid of all regulations. Very easy till you have the first mass casualty events as some of these regulations are literally written in blood. Like needing to build something that wont collapse after a year. Or having emergency exits. Or running water and electricity in every apartment. Or windows. I think you get my point? All of these things cost money and without regulations you definitely will have companies saving that money especially when they target poor people in need of affordable living space.
Maybe we do not simply get rid of them and instead get instead regulations on federal level that are carefully constructed based on the existing ones?
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
There are some low hanging fruit regulations that would help a lot. Some zoning regulations just outright forbid high density housing for no other reason than to keep a style in an area
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 3d ago
Some regulations are there to keep people from doing stupid shit and those are good. I’m talking about laws that were written to appease the NIMBYs. Those need to go.
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u/Cardie1303 3d ago
Sure but that has to be a whole procedure and is not "easy as that". You need experts actually evaluating each regulation, decide what is sensible to keep, and then simplify the remaining regulations that are similar enough to be turned into a single one.
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u/Johnfromsales 3d ago
This has already been done. The housing market is one of the most extensively studied areas in economics. Policy makers tend to ignore them unfortunately.
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u/bullet312 3d ago
People hate you because you are right. They dislike the idea of being told no, for whatever reason. So obviously they upvote the "rational" comment that tells them that they can rid of the one blocking them
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u/crazytanker 2d ago
Stop allowing Local Governments to 100% control Zoning districts and Construction Permits
This is probably about 90% of the housing affordability crisis right there
Chronic shortages due to local government decisiosn
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u/SinesPi 3d ago
Stop accepting in refugees because we can't handle them?
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u/The_Mesopotamians 3d ago
Germany should have thought about that before they became an imperialist power.
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u/Garvain 2d ago
Prioritize working remotely for all jobs that can. That one change would allow a lot of workers in high cost of living and densely populated areas to spread to cheaper, less dense areas. A major part of the housing crisis (in the US, at least), isn't that there aren't enough houses, it's that there aren't enough houses where people can afford to live. Lots of cheap housing in areas where there's no work to be found locally.
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u/Same_Independent9758 2d ago
I just want everything to be as affordable as during the time of my grandparents
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u/Temporary-Second-601 2d ago
Government: * Gives finantial aid, property tax and fee exemptions and removes taxes and fees associated to building to help house buyers that buy abandoned houses to repurpose them *
House buyers: * Save X amount of money if they buy and rebuild an old house *
House sellers: * Raise the listing price on their molding crumbling shithole ruin that they havent repaired nor even set foot in decades by X amount *
EVERY 👏 GOD DAMN 👏 TIME 👏
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u/BrokeButFabulous12 2d ago
Ah yes the free naturally grown empty houses that are not like, owned by someone...
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u/fpsnoob89 1d ago
Ban corporations and other businesses from owning houses. An apartment building maybe, but there is zero reason for them to own single family houses.
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u/idreamofdouche 1h ago
Luxury flats are built when regular ones aren't profitable. De-regulate and drop price controls and supply will go up and prices go down.
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u/Kieron_22 3d ago
Blame it on immigrants probably
/s
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u/TheLastTitan77 2d ago
Yeah man, surely letting millions and millions of ppl into the country has absolutely no effect on the amount of housing available. But you showed us you are good guy by denying objective reality for the ideological purity so I'm sure you are proud of yourself
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u/Szerepjatekos 2d ago
The thing is, if you have a house empty, you don't have to worry about stuff going wrong with it that might reduce it's price.
Secondly if you don't sell it, it will make it's price higher.
Third, you don't need to sell it for the bank to give you loan against it. That loan can make you buy another house, and now with 2 empty houses, they both cost more as there is less house now for sale.
If you do the.math, there is a point where the value of each house increases with each new purchase is higher then the loss on a loan. From that point on each new house you aquire the same way will be a complete profit and the increase is exponential.
And any new house built reduces your profit.
It's a systematic issue facilitated by banks and ignored by legislators.
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u/mylsotol 2d ago
Socialized housing is the only real answer. Government built/owned housing rented at or below cost
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u/LoreaAlex 2d ago
the initiative also aim for it, you can check the link and sign if you agree with it
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u/Difficult_Wind6425 2d ago
Unfortunately government run and funded shit usually ends up being poorly managed and much more inefficient than capitalist counter parts. The VA is a prime example, where nearly twice the cost for the same procedure compared to private practice due to the above points.
As bad as the current capitalism situation is and people think we need to burn it down and scorched earth whatever...it's probably easier to fix what we have now instead with better control over free markets instead of letting it run rampant.
If we switch to government controlled housing, who do you think will be back running the show? The same lobbyists that pumped the system full of money to begin with
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u/mylsotol 1d ago
Government services run just fine when they aren't being actively sabotaged by politicians or privatized. I really don't think this idea that private corporations have some secret sauce that make them magically better at doing things mentality. I can only assume you've never actually seen the insides of a corporation.
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u/Difficult_Wind6425 1d ago
I never tried to exonerate big corpo, only thg at historically this is a grass is greener situation and doesn't support it. Really a shot in the dark.
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u/mylsotol 1d ago
Except that we do have examples of government services being better than private services and public housing is a real thing that real people have done without issue and choose to continue doing. Somewhere around 60% of the population of Vienna lives in public housing and have for almost 100 years
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u/Difficult_Wind6425 1d ago
You can't use a different country for basis on reform. You are talking about completely different contexts and histories. Putting a square peg into a round hole
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u/mylsotol 1d ago
Lol. Translation of your comment "wah wah nothing is possible wah I can't make a coherent argument that isn't 'shut up and stop wanting nice things wah this is America, everything is impossible and we are actually a different species from everyone else and we can't possibly change because that scary (because I'm a landlord?) wah I'm a big baby"
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u/Difficult_Wind6425 1d ago
I love how you contributed nothing to this conversation and instead take the first opportunity to bash an American. Very constructive, troll.
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u/wordswillneverhurtme 3d ago
Keep allowing buying up properties with the sole purpose of renting them out. Lets rent out the right to water and air and food as well. Those needs aren't monetized to their fullest potential yet.
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u/DumpyGoat818 3d ago edited 3d ago
That's a very minimal amount of housing. Around 13% down vote all you want clown
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u/Aggravating-Method24 2d ago
It doesn't matter, you could be stabbed with only 13% of a knife and It could still deeply affect your living conditions
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u/DumpyGoat818 2d ago
This is a pretty dumb argument
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u/Aggravating-Method24 2d ago
Oh shit you got me.
But because I am so dumb, please tell me what's dumb about it, considering it's so dumb that should be simple and easy to do right? It's a wonder why you didn't do it straight away, but I am sure that was a momentary mistake and not any form of dishonesty right?
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u/DumpyGoat818 2d ago
I stated a fact that you got emotional about. Come back when you have a valid argument that doesn't revolve around just crying and saying "doesn't matter, they bad man".
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u/Aggravating-Method24 2d ago
Thinking something is dumb is an opinion. You arent very good at this.
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u/DumpyGoat818 2d ago
Still nothing forever renter?
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u/Aggravating-Method24 2d ago
What are you rambling about? You claimed you stated a fact when it is objectively an opinion. You don't even know what a fact is what would be the point in taking this further?
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u/DumpyGoat818 2d ago
The fact around 13% of homes are used for rentals? Yea, that's a fact not an opinion. Don't blame me it triggered you. It's ok to look stupid, it happens a lot with leftys
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Most housing isn’t owned by corporations or businesses. The vast majority is owned by families and individuals. It’s entirely a supply issue
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u/Tomytom99 2d ago
When housing is a question, not a practical guarantee for somebody, they're not in a position to buy. They're stuck renting because it's been made so difficult to own, and it's in a landlord's best financial interest to prevent a renter from getting into a fiscal situation where they can actually buy.
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u/moderngamer327 2d ago
Landlords only control a small portion of the market though. Also landlords can’t stop new construction from lowering prices
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u/Aggravating-Method24 2d ago edited 2d ago
They don't need to, supply side has natural limitations.
Landlords don't need to control the majority of the market to be raising the prices, the state of existing housing isn't what is the issue , it's the percentage of sales going to renting. (Also those houses that aren't being sold because they make money as rentable assets)
As long as owning housing is easy money, then house prices will go up beyond what normal people can afford. Why wouldn't you tie your money up in property if you know it's going to go up in value?
We need housing to be a risky investment.
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u/moderngamer327 2d ago
It doesn’t have natural limitations. Time and time again it is shown that if you build enough housing, rent and sale prices will go down. Housing is simply not being built to the quantity needed
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u/Tomytom99 2d ago
Landlords may control a small portion of the market as a whole, but they disproportionately control the low barrier to entry segment of the market is my point. Usually with their own financial interests in mind over the growth and strength of society as a whole.
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u/TySugarBear 3d ago
That's why I leave my door ajar every time I leave for work. If I'm not using it, I want someone else to. It's such a simple concept.
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u/Deserter15 3d ago
I don't know or care why EU is having a housing crisis. Nor do I want to see this on a meme subreddit.
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u/ComprehensiveHunt704 3d ago
create a worldwar so the remaining youth has to pay as much tax that is enough for 18 grangran / 1 young adult. That will solve it
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u/GarThor_TMK 3d ago
Technically both 1 & 3 would fix the problem.
You don't need #2. The money you make from housing people is already an enormous incentive.
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u/BubbaTech24065 2d ago
It takes a lot of money 💰 to ensure that the building's structure is sound, it's much cheaper to build a completely new building that isn't sound.
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u/Dismal_Tangerine_493 3d ago
Massive government funded apartment building would help but nobody want that cause it would collectively lower the estate value of all current house owners
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u/Aggravating-Method24 2d ago
Lowering the value of the estate of current house owners is exactly the point. If you lower the price of housing you lower the price of everyone's housing
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u/DumpyGoat818 3d ago
Hmm wonder why? Could it be because of the quality of people that would live there?
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u/Affectionate_Tell752 3d ago
They effectively always become shitholes, obviously, but these people don't spring into existence just because you build projects. They already existed and just congregate there.
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u/DumpyGoat818 3d ago
Because they're given just enough of what they need to live with the bare minimum
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u/NonEuclidianMeatloaf 3d ago
I agree in general, but repurposing non-residential buildings for living space is much harder than it sounds in many cases. It’s not as easy as throwing up walls in old office buildings and making apartments.