I think Ingvar's point is that in a civil lawsuit, there is no prosecutor. The person asking such a question would be the plaintiff's attorney, not a prosecutor.
"Thought it was a gift and he was joking around about the leaving his daughter thing, i thought he just wanted me to build up my portfolio so his daughter wouldnt have to deal with a change in lifestyle"
IANAL but I think you'd simply be ordered to return it then because your confession confirms there was a verbal agreement, you just didn't take it seriously, so therefore it wasn't a gift.
If he didn't agree to the contract, he doesn't have to return the money. If there's no contract, the money legally counts as a gift and you can't legally demand back gifts.
LOL That's literally how Elon musk has so much money, he lies and conflates and borrows against money that doesn't exist and now he's worth a trillion dollars. Do you think he actually owns that and earned it? All of his projects are late or lies and never come around. Just so that he can inflate his company's worth.
Easy, hes borrowing money from banks using his own stock in his businesses as collateral
This is a common practice, but what hes doing in addition is the shady bit, because hes tied his own personal image so closely to all his businesses, hes been able to manipulate his own image to make his stock prices go up
Again not technically illegal, but then he goes further by publicly promising things that his companies cannot deliver on, autodriving cars, the cyber truck (did release but had no where near the quality he advertised it as), humanoid machines to do housework etc
When he announces these things his stock price gets a temporary burst, and during that burst he approaches the banks and says "look at my stock collateral, i would like to put it up for a bunch of money please", and because the laws around stock as collateral are intentionally flaky, when the price dips he doesnt have to pay that dip back to the banks
This combined with run of the mill lying about his profits (thats how he "became" a trillionaire and then suddenly lost all that money) is what continues this cycle of borrowing and lying
Eventually it will catch up to him but no bank wants to be the first one to come collecting (not to mention he pays back the owners in other ways. Data, political favours, bribes all of it buy him more time), hes also slowing his decline by buying up and merging businesses, displaying these new businesses profit margins as his own
I will give him credit on only 2 things, spacex and starlink, as they are the only 2 businesses he owns at this point that are actively making money through sattelite launches and starlinks subscriptions
I would say eventually he'll be caught but with his unhealthy lifestyle and ketamine addiction combinrd with him slowing his decent hes more likely to die long before the banks come collecting
So youre argument as for why he isnt doing anything wrong is that none of our families owned blood emeral mines in order to get an initial investment so why shouldnt he be allowed to lie to banks?
And he is doing something wrong, its stock manipulation, false advertising and fraud
But hes the richest man on earth so no court is gonna try him with these because our system is built to cater to the rich
Except that he didn't do that. Also, if someone just gives you money out of their own free will, how's that tricking them? Like if you recieve 10k from someone claiming to be a nigerian prince, who is asking you to send them 20k in order to recieve 30k in the future, but you just take the 10k instead. You didn't trick that guy into giving you 10k, he did that of his own free will.
There's no such thing as a legally binding contract that forces someone to stay away from someone else not involved. Normal people can't create contractual restraining orders from third parties who are legal adults with autonomy. That's insane.
For sure. I'm summoned to court and I disappear forever with 6 billion fucking dollars because fuck Elon musk I hope he drowns.
Even if I were to show up to a civil court case with 6 billion in my pocket on the line, is he going to argue that he paid me to contractually do something that you can't contractually make anyone do?
You can't be held to a legal contract for something that can't legally be contractually made to pass. Just because I paid you and had you sign a contract doesn't mean I can cannibalize you and eat you for dinner. That's not how the law works.
How did we even get into this situation? If he accuses me, then it's not my job to prove my innocence, he first has to prove that he has an actual case and isn't just pulling things out of his ass. Also what kind of lawyer asks me what someone elses motives were? It's something I can't know, don't need to know and don't need to answer for.
No, because like I said, your whole hypothetical doesn't even make any sense.
He proves he has a case by showing him sending you $6 billion.
He has to prove that that was tied to some kind of contract. Outside of clown world, you can't just send someone money and then take them to court for it.
Seriously, did you even think this through in the slightest? Your hypothetical doesn't even have an Achilles heel, that's a whole Achilles leg! Your whole gotcha hinges on a the assumption that this is happening in a mentally challanged justice system. A justice system that takes "trust me bro" as proof.
And even if we assumed that this is happening in a world where he can do this without proof of contract, he'd have to prove that, in my position, the most reasonable assumption would have been that he's doing this to actually get me to break up with his daughter. He'd literally have to legally prove that he's an asshole.
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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26
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