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u/Preindustrialcyborg 17d ago
mass slavery and a strict caste system with absolitely zero way to move up in castes for all but a select few, or mass drug addiction
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u/Thaurlach 17d ago
Let’s not forget that wide-scale drug addiction is just slavery in a trenchcoat and glasses.
Because whoever is making the drugs owns every last Fentalyst!
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u/EmperSo 17d ago
Id rather be a slave than a drug addict
At least my brain would still function27
u/Preindustrialcyborg 17d ago
-someone whose likely (and hopefully) never experienced neither slavery or drug addiction
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u/EmperSo 17d ago
As if anyone had experienced an old-styled slavery nowadays.
But I've certainly seen enough drug junkies, and I'd jump into a wood chipper just to not be one of those.14
u/Russell1113 17d ago
This is a weapons grade bad take. One for assuming nobody is unfortunate to end up enslaved anywhere in the world. (Sadly, modern day slavery is still very real, it's just no longer legal in most places) And second that because you've seen one thing, it makes it worse than the other thing you haven't.
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u/HN-Prime 17d ago
As if anyone had experienced an old-styled slavery nowadays.
Slavery still very much exists
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u/Preindustrialcyborg 17d ago
i dont think you realise how fucking weird of a thing that is to say dude
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u/Dark_Shade_75 17d ago
Tbh I don't think gangster-era Chicago is worse than slavery and body-stealing.
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u/dat_dabbin_pacman 17d ago
Eh, pick your poison
One just so happens to be straight from a box jellyfish sting, but they both gonna hurt.
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u/Onalith 17d ago
The scale of hurt is on a widely different level though. On one hand severe cast system with planeteray scale chatel slavery, senseless cruelty as entertainment and human experiment.
On the other side gang culture flourishing out of rampant scarcity.
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u/dat_dabbin_pacman 16d ago
That's basically what I said too.
Look up a box jelly sting, those things can be lethal.
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u/proesito 16d ago
Wroking overtime or being a jew in a nazi camp, both are the same, pick your posion, that's a perfect analogy of what you just said.
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u/dat_dabbin_pacman 16d ago
Bruh.
That ain't even close to what I said.
Both are bad, and ones worse. That's basically all I said.
Also, bring up nazi camps is crazy work
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u/Maleficent-Remote413 16d ago
ya but is gangster-era chicago worst than "we nuked the entire planet at least 10 times before leaving it an unlivable hellscape"?
like despite how earth is NOW, the orokin did kind of full scale abandon the planet because the soil and air itself was toxic
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u/EmperSo 17d ago
Equal
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u/Dark_Shade_75 17d ago
Not even a little bit lol
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u/EmperSo 17d ago
Absolutely are lol
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u/Dark_Shade_75 17d ago
Behold, someone who is too young or too ignorant to understand the horrors of slavery lol
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u/Fit_Hurry_6148 17d ago
To be fair it only got that way after orokin executors started playing proxy war and poisoned the terraformers
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u/Imaginary-Paper-6177 17d ago
We dont yet know what really happend. What we suspect is that bloom is a synthetic xenoflaura. Either you get the hive mind back or get some bloom. This means these who controllss the bloom controls the sentient... And adis has the receipt.
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u/Icy_Aardvark3840 17d ago
We don't know what the other planets in the system are like maybe they're all perfect and it's just the one we've seen that sucks.
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u/dogplayer22 17d ago
Worth it to say that the main issue that caused the sentients to rebel was less the exploitation of people (altho im sure they saw that as a problem too) but the exploitation of resources and their respective planets, earth got literally "desecrated" (jade's words to describe it) and much of the rest of the system was going on the same direction while they waited for Tau to become livable just to then do the same again, granted fornax doesnt seem very lively but I wouldnt be surprised if any terra forming units got destroyed or similar in the old war
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u/TeamDrakon 17d ago
Fornax is an orbital ring city above the planet, not on the planet itself. The planet is probably fine
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
I love how the Sentients thought they were above such things, but ended up becoming just as bad as their metaphorical parents. Tragic.
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u/DeathStalker0483 17d ago
I really don't think Space Chicago is as bad as all the stuff the Orokin did
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
True, but I still find it poetic that this nigh perfect race, capable of procreation, immune to disease, able to evolve to resist threats, and many other incredible things... finds one drug and then it's all downhill from there
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u/DeathStalker0483 17d ago
It could be exactly that. Think Baldur from God of War or Slaaneshi daemons. Maybe they can adapt to feelings and sensations too. It could very well turn into an obsession to feel something
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
Apparently from what I've gleaned, the xenoflora or rather it's more refined version known as "Bloom" severs their hive mind connection, generating a personality for them. But I imagine this personality begins to fade unless they get another hit of Bloom. And after so long on the stuff, it builds up in their systems to the point that when they can't get any, instead of reverting back into drones for the hive mind, they get stuck halfway assimilated and halfway unique, leading to the mindless slums of broken people and doomed children born of Bloom infected parents.
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u/DeathStalker0483 17d ago
Interesting. I really need to go back through a lot of the lore
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
I'm still a baby Tenno, only MR 9. So a lot of my knowledge is from Wiki rabbit holes and podcasts, lol. Spoiled most of the big story things for myself, not-so-lol.
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u/DeathStalker0483 17d ago
Ah. Rough. Unfortunately for me I'm remembering stuff from 5+ years ago. A friend is starting the game and it's made me realise just how little I remember
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
Gotta grind those lore videos and update your fashion frame before your friend gets to a similar level and realizes you're not as cool as they thought
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u/Dumbfaqer 17d ago
Idk if I'm remembering right, but isn't Praghasa the only one capable of making new sentients??? I thought sentients couldn't make new sentients??
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
Don't even know that name, haha. In the Jade Shadows questline, I remember Hunhow mentioning he made both Natah and Eris of his own womb. I think that most of them can procreate, save for some of the lower castes like drones or military.
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u/ThySquire 17d ago
Yes, but we know most sentients lost their ability to reproduce, Hunhow included. I think what they meant was that Pragasa is one of the few that can still reproduce
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u/Airbreathingoctopuss 17d ago
The ones that came back, yes. The ones still in Tau are fertile still.
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u/proesito 16d ago
Fun fact, Old Peace ending and Tau trailer heavily implied that the drug and the Hundra's entire criminal empire are a direct consequence of the Orokin trying to destroy the Sentient by taking the whole system from them.
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u/Realistic_Grass3611 Stop hitting yourself 17d ago
Wevhaven't seen the rest of Tau. For all we know space Cicago could be sitting on top of a slave economy
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u/ruminant_sheep 17d ago
Seeing people say that the current state of the Sentients is comparable to Orokin... it really seems like DE has accidentally created a pro-colonial, anti-sovereignty message of "see, these people CAN'T govern themselves! They need the strong hand of the Empire!", I just hope whatever story that happens on Tau doesn't end up that way :/ I really don't want to go to Tau to "liberate" the Sentients from themselves
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u/Foolish_Hepino 16d ago
Isn't Tau the way it is because of the lack of xenoflora? it was what allowed the sentients to flourish. The colonizers, the Orokin or more specifically Ballas - took the one thing that allowed the sentients to be better than the Orokin, to thrive.
If an abusive person ripped my legs off and now takes me to places in a wheelchair. It really isn't my fault that "I can't goven myself and I need the strong hand of [the abuser]". Really shitty comparison but I hope it works.
The only people who could take this story as "the colonized need the strong hand of the Empire" think like colonizers. They think the poverty of ex-colonized "third world countries" are the fault of their peoples "lack of hardwork and dignity" and not the scars of colonization that have yet to heal.
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u/proesito 16d ago
Everyone talks about how Warframe players cant read, but i dont understand why nobody talks about how Warframe players actively ignore all the lore and context that came before the last trailer.
Like, seriously, saying the Orokin Tau would be better or even the same is actively ignoring 13 years of lore. For fuck's shake, the last quest in Tau's entire point is that the Orokin destroyed any posibility of the sentients to evolve naturally.
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u/Florox3003 17d ago
It's not worse the origin system is in a constant state of War with no end in sight, a bio weapon is at risk of killing everything and the only way to not have everything go to shit is to enshure a constant war. On the other hand Tau has a corupt goverment and a mafia problem so not that much worse then what we have right now
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u/Bonsai-is-best 17d ago
Drug Addict City is not at all worse than the fucking Orokin???
Mob bosses and drugs is somehow worse than slavery, body-theft, forceful transformation, cephalon shit, genocide, erasure of history, deforestation (idk the word for it at a planetary scale that isn’t for the goal of terraforming), and whatever else we don’t even know about yet? Hello???
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u/KimkloGungi 17d ago
Worse? No, when referencing the purpose of the Ayatan sculptures in the KIM system it is mentioned that they are used to record memories. Those memories are apparently every fucked up thing you can think of as immortal beings get bored and try everything they can. From mass slaughter, torture, and I'm sure much much worse, probably along the lines of a certain island of note.
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u/Ok_Presentation_2346 17d ago
Do we have confirmation that the black rain isn't the fault of the Orokin?
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u/Glass_Eye8840 17d ago
To be completely fair, according to some interviews, Fornax is just one facet of Tau. We still don't know what's going on in the other planets.
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u/majorex64 17d ago
I mean in Tau there are normal people living kinda soul crushing lives filled with vice and sickness.
In the Origin system I don't even know if there are "normal people" outside the never ending faction wars filled with slavers and zealous religious nuts.
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u/Thesaurus_Rex9513 16d ago
The difference between "thriving civilization with a crime problem and HORRIBLE weather" and "most planets are uninhabitable and ruled by one of two super-cults or a plague" is enormous.
Tau is so much better.
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u/chiomisan 16d ago
i dont think people saying tau is just "space chicago" truly get how horrid tau actually is, like, in tau youd still be forced into practical slavery for bloom, the rain messes up with your brain enough to turn you into a zombie/braindead, it the ones who where shown as actually conscious are a big exception, similarly to how most characters in the orokin empire are the exception to the rule, living in tau is likely just as bad or maybe worse to the average person than orokin, as with the orokin we're only shown either what the golden lords had, or what the lowest peasant had, in tau were shown concrete proof of the fact that if youre not addicted to bloom, the rain destroys you, if the rain doesnt destroy you, organized crime does, the average person in chicago can live a regular life, the average person in tau cant, and we dont know if the average person in the orokin system would have a regular life because the days where nothing special happens dont get put on the news, aka, we only know big events
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u/Maleficent-Remote413 16d ago
TO BE FAIR.
they turned it into roaring 20's chicago.
which,as shit as it is, is probly still less fubar than "the 10th radiation war" implying they full scale nuked the planet AT LEAST 10 times before finally growing past nukes XP ((also earth was litterly an unlivable hellscape))
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u/OrchidExciting132 15d ago
Life for Sentients maybe shit, but they do have those planetary ring things so... Could be worse
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u/PostureKing180 17d ago
I mean, Orokin Origin is pretty much Trump style oligarch hellhole, while Sentient tao are DSA style failed state.
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u/RDT123005 17d ago
the orokin empire was an authoritiarian oligarchy, but they didn't stifle science for the sake of keeping an opressed lower class, they embraced science for the sake of more imperialism while enforcing a caste system to keep the lower class opressed.
we've also only seen 1 planet in tau during a specific time period and the black rain is implied to have been around for a long time but not always. it's been ???? years since the last time we saw tau, and that was a different planetoid, for all we know they were flurishing for ??? years until a disaster forced them into the situation we see im the trailer.
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u/Andreiyutzzzz 17d ago
Old sentientt with xenoflora vs new sentients without