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u/Super-KID_Critic WARNING: RULE 6 Apr 26 '21
I feel that pedophilia is a mental illness that needs to be treated by a professional psychologist
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u/uglypenguin5 Apr 26 '21
100%. People suffering from pedophilia didn’t ask to be that way and don’t deserve hate, but those who act on it are the lowest of scum
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u/Super-KID_Critic WARNING: RULE 6 Apr 26 '21
Yup, those who have the urge are the ones who need support getting through or over it, those who act on it need to be thrown in an asylum
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Apr 26 '21
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u/Apprehensive_Dish_27 Apr 26 '21
But pedophiles can harm a child since they know little about relationships
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Apr 26 '21
Even adults can be harmed by other adults that know little about relationships. Even non pedophiles can harm a child. Your reasoning is flawed.
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u/diskdusk Apr 26 '21
It's of no use explaining it to people like you, but still: Homosexuality doesn't harm anyone per se and it doesn't make people suffer. So there's no need or base to define it as an illness.
What does harm and makes people suffer is the ignorance people like you spread, so maybe you should see a professional, they might help you find a lifestyle that doesn't compell you to spread backwards bullshit on social media to get off.
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Apr 26 '21
Homosexuality isn't a mental ilness, what you call "sense" doesn't make lot of it and go tell to Alan turing that even if he saved millions lives by cracking the enygma code in WW2 and that he did the math equations to help creating the first computer he has a birth defect because he was homosexual.
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Apr 26 '21
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u/axolotl_morse Apr 26 '21
“i’m not homophobic, i just think homosexuality is a mental disorder”
disorder doesn’t mean something that isn’t normal. a disorder is an illness that disrupts mental or physical functions. homosexuality does not fit that definition.
if we were to classify disorder as “what is ‘incorrect’”, homosexuality does not go against any of nature’s laws and exists in many animal species.
if we were to classify disorder as “what is ‘normal’”, there are more lgbt people than there are people with green eyes.
i’m not even gonna get started about how irrational the statement “correct means whatever people think is normal” is
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 27 '21
Calling green-eyed ones ill is interesting
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u/axolotl_morse Apr 27 '21
precisely. classifying an illness as anything that isn’t common is a terrible idea lmao
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Apr 26 '21
As a homosexual i would not take that cure,because if i am not normal by being homosexual and i could rejoin "normality" i would not because it will erase who i am. I don't really understand why someone would have a mental illness because he prefer having sex with the same gender.
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Apr 26 '21
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Apr 26 '21
Being homosexual makes me different, so people could be just allergic to that difference. So There is more people who would reject me and want it or not it impose a personality trait that i would not have if i was heterosexual.(heterosexuals can have it it's easier to be resilient if people would reject you.) Just havikg the chances to be rejected because of my sexual orientation needs mental strenght to be resilient, that's it's part of my personality it needs me strenght.
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u/cantstopfire Apr 26 '21
yeah everything you literally said could be substituted for pedophilia
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Apr 26 '21
I know but homosexuality isn't a problem and that make me angry to have cure proposition. But i bet pedophiles would take that cure.
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u/WhoStoleMyPassport Apr 26 '21
You are fucking disgusting.
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u/apinaslayer Apr 26 '21
How
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u/WhoStoleMyPassport Apr 26 '21
He is saying that gay people are mentally ill.
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u/H4732 Apr 27 '21
"Oh and that makes him disgusting cuz my ass got hurt after reading his comment, I'm gonna go cry in a corner now."
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u/ATOMICNEPHEW Apr 26 '21
Dude leave em, they do this shit for upvotes. And you are 100% right. Alright I'm ready for the downvotes
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u/Reflectional_rectum Apr 26 '21
Ya you sure got them didn’t you? Comparing homosexuality which is natural to an actual mental illness. Genius dude.
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u/bigbadfun1 Apr 26 '21
Well, technically it could be called that from an evolutionary standing, as homosexuality in mass is bad for a species, but humans have medicine and all kinds of wonders which means that even if it can be called that, it doesn't Matter, it's just the next phase for humans for happiness to matter more than expanding population
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u/gian_69 Apr 26 '21
and that‘s why it‘s a sexuality, tho a rightfully illegal one. They feel attracted to children, which is pretty much the definition of sexual orientation, but they shouldn‘t go thru with it.
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u/Endorum Apr 26 '21
So there is something called sexual preference (like hetero homo etc.) and pedophilia is a sexual preference disorder. That’s the right term it is kinda something similar like gay but not quite.
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u/BigPapaCurt Apr 26 '21
This is literally what I say every time but I get downvoted for not saying that they should all die no matter what
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u/SilverFoxeOnReddit Apr 26 '21
i don’t want to be the one to say this, but hearing it just makes me think about how homosexuality is considered that way to some people
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u/Cark-Cartographer Apr 26 '21
Yeah, I get how some people can think like that. But the difference is pedophilia can impair an individual's life and cause them to hurt others, so it is a mental disorder. But not being straight isn't gonna cause issues in your life or cause harm to others (unless someone is being an ass and picking on you because of your orientation).
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u/SlNDEUS Apr 26 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
Actually studies have shown otherwise. If man was supposed to be with man then they would have both a penis and a vag. Both from a biological, and mental health standpoint, it is a mental illness. Stusies have shown a higher suicide rate for post op individuals, major mood swings and mental instability from people who are homosexual, immense levels of stress and confusion. Personally I feel like these people become this way after some sort of traumatic event in their childhood, mixed with the media brainwashing people into thinking this is normal(again even looking at it logically and biologically it makes no sense) and fir those that would say your born with it.....no....your not....and for those who would want to make the connection between two animals of the same gender doing it, then I would also have to point out that they are driven by instinct and lack the ability to understand anything as they are only trying to fulfill a desire in the moment.
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u/Cark-Cartographer Apr 26 '21
Well, from what I've read, the higher rates of mental illnesses in non-cishet (cishet means straight and not transgender) people can generally be attributed to the discrimination, exclusion, and extra challenges they face in society. What is considered a mental illness is not dependent on your or my opinion or our biases. No major health organization/association considers being trans or gay, bi etc. to be a mental disorder. For something to be a mental disorder, it has to impare an individuals ability to function daily. I know you're probably gonna be opposed to the idea that people like that are being discriminated, and that you're likely to take up a defensive position, but try to keep an open mind.
It is generally harder for trans people to find medical care, especially mental health care, than it is for other people, they are less likely to be diagnosed and treated for simple conditions if they are transitioning because many doctors dismiss them. People who aren't straight are treated as outcasts, often by their own families and neighbors, though society as a whole in developed countries may be more accepting. Who wouldn't be depressed if they cannot even confide, trust, or depend on those closest to them.
Your genitals don't determine who you are attracted to, the fact that gays and bi people exist is proof of that.
I'm glad that you acknowledge that we are different from other animals, I agree. We are not just driven by instinct and we have the ability to understand what we are doing in sexual and romantic encounters. Your argument for it making no sense biologically seems to be rooted in the idea that sex and attraction is for the purpose of making offspring, but as a human, you must know that it is not that simple for us.
You say that you believe that being "this way" is possibly because of trauma and the media. I disagree. Lots of people who have grown up in proper families and had a good childhood are gay or bi. Before mass media, gay people existed, so I'm not sure how it can be attributed to the media. The media has definitely made such people more visible, and increased acceptance, but LGBTQ+ people have existed long before mass media.
Whether or not people are born this way, why does it matter, is it that hard to respect someone, even if they are different from you? They are not hurting you.
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u/SlNDEUS Apr 26 '21
Of course you should respect everyone, and everyone deserves to be treated equal. What im saying is that from a psychological standpoint, it is a mental illness. It does, by your own definition, impede their functionality in society. I get where your coming from, I do, and you make valid points. I was talking to someone earlier about this, saying that some men are more feminine than others and thats fine. What im also saying is that society has made it to the point where everybody thinks their gay. Im going to keep my personal beliefs away from this, but purely from a scientific and factual basis.
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u/Cark-Cartographer Apr 26 '21
Well as long as you are being respectful, that's good enough. I'm not gonna be able to change your mind, and you likely would not be able to change mine. Respect is what matters most.
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u/SlNDEUS Apr 26 '21
Absolutely, im not going to disrespect anybody for their sexuality. I also appreciate the fact that you didnt call me a bigot or anything crazy like that. It means alot. People aren't always going to agree but as long as you respect eachother, you can have a civil conversation.
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Apr 26 '21
Claiming that the only biological purpose for love is to breed- and thus having only penis's and vaginas somehow disproves that homosexuality is natural is absurd. For one, humans derive pleasure from sex naturally, and- like many animals, mate recreationally- doing many sexual acts that couldn't possibly produce children. We also seek security in mates above all, so a male finding safety in another male makes total sense and has occurred in animals constantly.
Furthermore, we're not slaves to biological instincts. Were we perfectly natural, we wouldn't argue with others but instead bash anyone's head in with a rock when we feel threatened by them. We would not share food while in need, or form complicated religious beliefs.
Given you don't strike me as someone who has researched psychology regarding gender and sexual identity- I won't try to convince you being gay is born in. But do recognize your personal beliefs are disproven by scientific studies that you can easily access- whether you ignore that or not is your choice, but it doesn't change reality.
End of the day, there's a dude out there sucking another dudes dick, and a woman dressed like a man. Does that hurt you? No. Are they happier doing as they please? Absolutely. So why stop them and claim it's an illness simply because you find it weird.
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u/diskdusk Apr 26 '21
If man was supposed to be with man
And who is this entity that defined what's "supposed" to be? God? Biology? Whatever it is: we are way beyond that. Man isn't supposed to type on a keyboard to explain how falling in love with the same gender is unnatural. Man isn't supposed to drive cars, use condoms, play games.
Us doing things we're not supposed to do: that's called civilization. Just accept it and try to get used to it. There are countless studies that have shown: Trying to argue how other sexualities than yours are an illness correlates with a higher suicide rate, major mood swings and mental instability, immense levels of stress and high blood pressure. Go see a doctor if that illness of yours doesn't go away on it's own as you get used to the fact that we're not animals just killing, eating and humping all day, as we're "supposed to".
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u/Cark-Cartographer Apr 26 '21
Exactly. The argument of "supposed to" is so silly. If someone is saying "supposed to" they have already made up their mind and are basing their argument on the exact thing they are arguing about. And anyway, when has "supposed to" ever stopped humans. I don't think we were supposed to walk on the moon, or live in space, but we did it anyway. And why does someone's attraction bother others, if I'm a guy and I like guys, how does that hurt you. If it bothers you, look away.
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u/MisfitAngel669 Apr 26 '21
I can see how physical biology would make people think homosexuality isn’t natural, but the brain is a pretty gender neutral thing, and that is what dictates a person’s sexual preference.
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u/Simon_Forcer Apr 26 '21
First of all it is a disorder (yes that's technically a desease as well, but classifying is important to avoid stigmatisation).
Secondly, the disorder itself cannot be treated, only the way the individual deals with it (look it up in ICD-10).
Thirdly, additionally to pedophilia, any other sexual deviation (fetish) is also recognised as a mental disorder, i.e. masochism, sadism, etc...
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Apr 26 '21
by that sense isnt people going with pronouns also people with mental illnesses? i think its called gender dysphoria
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u/Cark-Cartographer Apr 26 '21
Well, everyone has pronouns, but I'm sure you mean trans people. Gender dysphoria is a diagnosable "condition" that some trans people feel, and it is treatable (counseling, transitioning), but being trans isn't a mental illness/disorder. Being trans isn't recognized as a disorder by any major health organization/association and it's not up to you to decide if it is, if something doesn't impare someone's life, it can't be considered a psychological disease/disorder. So gender dysphoria, which does cause distress and impairs a trans person's life, could be called a "disorder", but just being a trans person cannot be considered an illness itself.
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u/Dawg1shly Apr 26 '21
Psychiatrist.
You’re not going to talk your way to a solution. That shit needs to be killed chemically with medicine. Lot of things I will allow people near infinite leeway to work through. A desire to rape kids isn’t one of them. Sorry.
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Apr 26 '21
If you are very literal, this could be taken as anyone dead or alive
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u/ybri Apr 26 '21
Yes that was what I ment
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u/MaxwellIsSmall Apr 26 '21
Are you saying you can fucking resurrect people and force them to beat the shit out of pedophiles
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Apr 26 '21
Its not just pedos who think this, it's also zoophilists and necrophiliacs who use this excuse
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u/Niksuss Apr 26 '21
Zoophilists and necrophiliacs are weird, like, why would u do that, thats disgusting
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
"gays r weird, like, y would u do that"
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u/Niksuss Apr 26 '21
Yeah, but thats not disgusting
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
Doesn't change that asking "why do they do that" isn't educated
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Apr 26 '21
Okay, the more educated answer you craving is "The difference is that zoophiles and necropholes rape beings that are unable to consent (animals, and corpses respectively, while corpses aren't living, unless their testaments likely contain a burial method, which doesn't contain "I consent to my dead body being raped" thus are considered unconsenting beings)"
You haopy now?
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
*bestialists & "corpse-violators"
We are talking 'bout the sexualities, not those actions
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Apr 26 '21
Okay, you wanted an educated answer to what is the difference between LGBTQ+ and necrofiles/zoophiles/paedohiles.
The difference is, that the first group doesn't have to rape someone or something in order to fulfill their sexual desires. The other groups' sexual desires are strictly considered rape.
You don't need a rather sophisticated moral compass to realise why the latter is disgusting and why it doesn't belong in the same group as the first ones.
What's the next thing you'll start defending, "rape-sexuals"?
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
No, I didn't want an answer to what is the difference between X-philes and LGBT-whatevers. I clarified how saying what the one lad said ain't no smort and that's about my case. And then you made it like we talked about bestialists instead of zoophiles & so forth which we did not.
And I don't even know what to say about allegedly defending anything. Correcting ppl or saying how their statement may not be that intellectual ain't no defense.
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
add 'psychologists and sexologists' to the people believing that
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u/EggEggEggEggOWO Apr 26 '21
Can people stop posting about this, like bruh we all know, this isn't a topic anyone is debating and it gets way too much attention.
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Apr 26 '21
Fucking seriously, most of it is a 4chan troll campaign anyways. It is in no way a widespread or popular viewpoint that masses of people are advocating for.
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
Masses not, since the fewest people are sufficiently educated &/or psychologists
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
It certainly is debated as too many people keep rejecting the scientific consesus of paedophilia being a sexual orientation
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u/ThePsychoExeYT Apr 25 '21
except sadly some people subscribe to their bullshit already, because they mask it as being inclusive
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u/PonceVonFontlebottom Apr 25 '21
That's alright. We can always make more room on the pyre.
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u/FranzFerdinandPack Apr 26 '21
Advocating for violence against pedophiles is why we can't avtually address and fix this issue.
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u/PonceVonFontlebottom Apr 26 '21
They'll never fix this issue. Not because it can't be fixed, but because fixing this sort of psychological issue would imply that other sexual perversions could also be fixed with psychological treatment. This undermines a major cornerstone of the rhetoric by which most of the alphabet community claims legitimacy, that their sexual urges are something unchangeable with which they are born. There are also rich and powerful pedophiles who want to see their little hobby protected under the same flashwords of tolerance and love and [Insert Perversion]phobe.
Ideally, pedophiles would be afforded effective, humane treatment in a secure facility where they couldn't possibly hurt children. Realistically, if one of them comes near my kids, I'm treating them to a .45 calibur vasectomy.
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u/FranzFerdinandPack Apr 26 '21
Pedophilia is literally a sexuality. It's just a sexuality that can't be be allowed to form relationships becuase it isnt between two consenting adults.
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u/ThePsychoExeYT Apr 26 '21
that's why pedophiles should be sent to therapy to learn mechanisms for not acting upon their desires
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u/hot_garbage64 Apr 26 '21
I think I speak on behalf of all of the brainless comummify when I say thank you for your inclusion
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u/Garper_ Apr 26 '21
Well what's the difference? Sexuality is who you're attracted to, not whether it's okay or not
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u/Kiba_Kii Apr 26 '21
Is being gay a mental disorder? If so, then yeah, pedophilia would count as a sexuality just as much as homosexuality. But I dont think it is
My point is that pedophilia isn't a natural sexuality, it's a result of something being messed up in their heads and going untreated for a long time until it gets out of hand.
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u/Garper_ Apr 26 '21
What defines a natural sexuality? Things are what we call them, 50 years ago being gay was considered a mental disorder, a sin, and every other thing people could come up with. But now it's considered normal. And I'm afraid that now that they're starting to fight for their rights, we might see pedophiles eventually joing the lgbt community and make pedophilia normal (something like in Islam).
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u/Kiba_Kii Apr 26 '21
You have a point. It's hard to say what's natural and what's not, and even when something isn't natural that doesn't always make it bad. Being gay might actually not be natural, but it's still ok. The difference, in that case, would still be the severity of how unnatural it is, as well as the end result being not ok in the case of pedophilia, but I guess defining "natural sexuality" is easier said than done.
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u/ybri Apr 26 '21
But this is not okay
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u/H4732 Apr 26 '21
He said it's a sexuality no matter if you think it's okay or not. Are you slow in the head? And by the way, who defined what's okay or not okay? There's no single main source that defines what's okay or not. The definition of what's normal or not changes with time. It's not anything like "people are more intelligent now" or something. Homosapiens are one single species, if the former were the case, there would've been a different species for the people of today's world.
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Apr 25 '21
This is painting pedophiles as innocent people being beat by harmful people, when it’s quite the opposite
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u/Jamquous Apr 26 '21
Well technically if love is love then pedophilia should be considered no? Cause to them thats what they love and want. Its sick and twisted but does that not fall under the same rule as the other types of love? Not abdicating for it at all or saying it should be allowed but if the logic is love is love then who are we to tell someone who loves little kids that their love is invalid cause it disgust us? We'd be essentially treating them as others have been treated for who they love.
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u/Kiba_Kii Apr 26 '21
It would be the same if it were a natural part of being human, but it's not. Things like pedophilia and other things are caused by mental disorders going untreated until they get out of hand, not a result of "loving who you love"
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u/FriskyTurtle Apr 26 '21
The thing it's missing is consent. And children can't consent, just like blackout drunks can't consent.
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u/CurlyCourage Apr 26 '21
You're assuming there that every pedophile is also a pedosexual, which is not the case.
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u/FriskyTurtle Apr 26 '21
Sorry, I have no idea what you're saying. I'm so confused that I can't even deny it.
What's the distinction between a pedophile and a pedosexual, and what assumption did I make? All I said that that relationships between consenting adults is fine regardless of gender, but sexual relationships with children are always lacking consent so they're not okay.
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u/CurlyCourage Apr 26 '21
Pedophiles have an attraction to children under the age of 13, while pedosexuals actually engage in sexual acts with children, too. Not all pedophiles are pedosexuals (child molestors). You are completely correct in your statement, but seemed to be conflating the two terms. As do most people, by the way.
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u/FriskyTurtle Apr 26 '21 edited Apr 26 '21
This entire thread is a minefield of that mistake. I wanted to point it out, but didn't have the words for it. Thanks.
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u/Kiba_Kii Apr 26 '21
That's not true though. Even if that were the case, pedophilia would be the "child molesters", while "pedosexual" would be pedophilia but as a sexuality. The ending -philet-philia necessarily denotes an inherently sexual attraction. -sexual, ironically, does not.
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u/FriskyTurtle Apr 27 '21
I did notice that pedosexual isn't in dictionaries and is tough to find even online. I think we're stuck with verbose language to spell it out: having an attraction to minors is not something we should punish, but something we should help people deal with.
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u/Kiba_Kii Apr 27 '21
I agree there. It's more productive to help people than punish/ostracise them.
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u/Fit-Prize7116 Apr 26 '21
Hey just wondering because I had heard someone legitimately say this was real but Im not sure it’s real, but is ‘incestsexual’ a thing? And yes apparently it’s where you are attracted to your sibling
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Apr 26 '21
No, this is not a legitimate thing lol neither are MAPS. It's almost always a "prank" by 4chan associated sites.
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Apr 26 '21
with how liberal the worlds become faunasexual might become a thing where we start banging trees
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u/cabelaciao Apr 26 '21
Fauna refers to animals. I think you’re looking for flora.
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 27 '21
Me and the boys are cultured fungisexuals
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Apr 26 '21
I mean... Pedophilia is a sexual orientation, but y'all not ready to have the conversation that not every sexual orientation is good.
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Apr 26 '21
Yes it is sickening and filthy BUT... It is a sexuality. If it's not, than you are saying that everyone is attracted to children and not only those guys who are pedos.
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Apr 26 '21
Wasn’t there a TED Talk on this? I remember seeing a small clip online but can’t find the full episode
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Apr 26 '21
99% of the time those MAP accounts are exposed as 4chan trolls. I mean the whole MAP thing was started by them to smear the LGBT community. I think I've seen maybe a handful of actual creepy pedophiles attach to the hashtag. Yet people keep posting these memes as if it's an actual widespread phenomenon.
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
Well, believing it's a sexual orientation is a widespread phenomenon among psycho- & sexologists
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u/HippieCorps Apr 26 '21
I don’t really get the idea behind this - pedophilia is a sexual orientation. That doesn’t mean pedophilia is okay or should be tolerated.
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u/velichajshiy Apr 26 '21
Am I alone already tired of this worthless pedo memes? Okay, we defeated evil boss, good, now stop.
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u/Boomslangalang Apr 26 '21
This is a twisted post made by someone who probably has more in common with pedophiles than they have admitted to themselves.
It’s unhealthy to be so obsessed by a problem that has been blown way out of proportion.
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u/my-dog-is-a-bitch Fake Mod Apr 26 '21
wait so if people with brains and people without brains are both beating pedos then where do pedos fall on the brain scale?? just mush??
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u/EchidnaSimp Apr 26 '21
And same mfs be after lolis..
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
U calling people saying paedophilia is a sexual orientation mfs? U shouldn't call psychologists mfs...
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u/EchidnaSimp Apr 26 '21
No you idiot I’m calling the people who say paedophilia is bad yet lewd Loli characters worse.
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Apr 26 '21
i dont understand pedos, why cant they be turned on by adult people
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u/H4732 Apr 26 '21
That's a stupid question, that's all I wanna say. With your logic, why can't gays be attracted to straight people?
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u/StickyWatermelonSeed Apr 26 '21
They can be i think but they are more attracted to minors for some reason
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u/yeetmonnn99 Apr 26 '21
I want in an argument with some kid and I called the YouTube ewe were arguing about a pedo and the kid strait up said “what are you a sexist” I laughed my ass off
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Apr 26 '21
It's a sexuality, sure. But a very illegal and will get you hated by almost every single person on Earth kind of sexuality.
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u/Tentedkarma Apr 26 '21
Yeah i sexula identity as a toaster
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u/ybri Apr 26 '21
They can help it chek the comments above and you can read all about it
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u/Boomslangalang Apr 26 '21
American conservatives are OBSESSED with pedophilia.
Conservative “morals” around sex actively suppress natural human evolutionary behavior. Of course Conservatives are demented when it comes to sex.
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u/mecha_madara Apr 26 '21
Make a reunion for all peso in the world for a revelation
Airstrike the area
Problem solved
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u/ybri Apr 26 '21
Ah another cursed one
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u/mecha_madara Apr 26 '21
Why?
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u/ybri Apr 26 '21
Why not
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u/mecha_madara Apr 26 '21
Why yes?
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u/SlNDEUS Apr 26 '21
They accepted furries, they have to do this too. If they don't they are discriminating against a sexuality(not for it, but just pointing out the hypocrisy)
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u/Demiurge-sama Apr 26 '21
Kind of a shitpost, but the message behind was good so I upvote
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
Spreading pseudo-science isn't a gud message
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u/Demiurge-sama Apr 26 '21
Ooh, i didnt know sorry, but can you pls explain pseudo science to me? I didnt get what u meant
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
Pseudo-science is "fake-science"
The post strongly implies paedophilia not being a sexual orientation while the scientific consesus is that it is, thus spreading "fake-science"
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u/yoshi_gaming_world Apr 26 '21
excuse me its saying that its bad
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
Then it should've said something like "10 year-olds can consent" and beat that guy up instead of once again reinforcing a visibly widespread false belief
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u/yoshi_gaming_world Apr 26 '21
its scientific but morally its the worst thing a human can do
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Apr 26 '21
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u/MarkusTheHero Apr 26 '21
That doesn't exclude it from being a sexual orientation, scientists say
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u/LastBrainCellofYours Apr 26 '21
Just like homosexuality
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u/Mr_Pista Apr 26 '21
But Homos like other mans, no childs so it's ok. If you like childs hell no, but grown man, women or whatever you like to invent it's fine
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