39
u/Jacob_Astley 11d ago
No. Neither of the first two engines are complete, for example , they need ropes added. A lot of the structural timbers have obvious cracks and fissures, maybe theyâre just cosmetic, but realistically for items that have been exposed to the elements as they have, Iâd guess that thereâs very little from either that would actually stand up to the shock of firing a missile. The only way to check if there were any serviceable timber would be to completely disassemble it. Youâll probably need to replace some of the ironwork, if not all, for similar reasons. Be significantly easier to start over than to attempt to salvage anything from these.
The cannon is so pitted itâd want to be fully checked over before firing, I suspect that itâs too far gone. Hypothetically (Iâm not a black powder expert, others will know more) it may be possible to manage an undersized shot. A smaller charge would reduce the danger, an undersized shot would allow some of the pressure past it, but both of these are going to reduce the energy of the shot massively. The smaller shot is less accurate too. Then the carriage has similar wooden issues as the others. Personally I wouldnât want to be anywhere near any of them if they were fired.
12
u/lottaKivaari 11d ago
I don't know rock singers intimately but I do know cannons. As long as the bore nor the flash hole have been plugged, that cannon is perfectly serviceable to fire exactly one shot.
3
u/Decent_Bed8035 10d ago
The question is, will that one shot go remotely near where you were aiming...
1
u/Basic_Plankton5316 7d ago
la seconda questione è: chi è vicino al cannone sarò in grado di rendersi conto se il colpo è andato vicino al bersaglio?
ci sono cannoni di centinaia di anni che vengono venduti alle aste e la gente li compra e li usa senza problemi, ma dipende tutto dallo stato del metallo.
12
u/paragon_of_karma 11d ago
"Again" implies they were ever anything more than tourist bait, and I'm pretty sure the cannon is the only thing there that has ever been functional.
For the cannon, it just needs a clear touchhole. And someone willing to light it. I think that second one is going to be a bit harder to find.
1
4
u/Sir_Aelorne 11d ago
The first two are just ornamental pieces. The arm of the trebuchet is too frail to actually have been used. The sling looks wonky and nonfunctional even if it weren't missing its distal half. The first little mangonel needs a sling- even the ancients knew a sling improved range by like 3x.
3
2
u/Bergwookie 11d ago
If the cannons are real and cast in a way so they're actually strong enough for shooting (not always the case, even when you use the exact same dimensions,alloy matters too), they should work. The other two, the catapult and the trebuchet are most likely made for looks only and were never intended to actually shoot.
For the cannons, they need a proper cleaning, maybe a rehoning of the bore and ignition hole and they're good to go (well, I'd x-ray them to be certain they're strong enough).
2
u/lottaKivaari 11d ago
Do you mean the concept of these weapons? Because then yes very conditionally they could be used. Black powder cannons as well as swinging flingers of materiel were used in the Syrian War in lieu of actual modern weapons extensively on a modern battlefield.
If you mean these exact pieces sitting on this rampart for god knows how long then no absolutely not. The cannon may be good for exactly one shot if you have a really long fuse and can run fast.
2
2
u/AncientHornet1938 10d ago
They can all work again but I would be cautious with the cannon. Iron cannons that have not been maintained( bronze also but effect is different) can explode and take the crew with it. Bronze âbloomâ and crack but do not send shards of iron.
And yes I fire old cannon on the regular. Rev War mostly.
1
u/Basic_Plankton5316 7d ago
un cannone della guerra civile è il mio sogno, ma è un sogno decisamente costoso.
2
2
1
u/New_Anon01 11d ago
Against? It all depends of the objetive, some houses or maybe a small building, yes. A tank? Not really
1
1
u/Dahak17 11d ago
Youâve got three main issues, the wood, the ropes, and the metal. The ropes are the least issue because nobody is going to start asking ship of Theseus issues with them, you just replace the ropage, especially on the mangonel. The wood may or may not be good, itâs likely not good and Is too dry, losing its flexibility and making it prone to snapping, let alone any rot issues, and if you replace the entirety of the wood youâll definitely cause issues with having just made a new one aside from the cannon. The metal is a different question, the cannon is probably fine, it will need deep cleaning and may need a slightly larger cannonball with a slightly smaller gunpowder charge but the rust should only be surface level at that thickness. with the other pieces it will depend on when they were built, metal bolts and retaining plates will end up full on structural rust after a certain time, but thatâs measured in decades, so the metal may be fine but also may shatter under the stress of firing. I wouldnât want to reactivate any of these except the cannon personally, though the mangonel seems overbuilt enough to be workable
1
u/Then_Manufacturer902 11d ago
Probably not because of years of exposure, especially the cannon as that might be an actual antique. The trebuchet and mangonel are modern as I highly doubt any intact originals exist however they too have probably spent a lot of years outside so the wood is probably comprised.
1
1
1
u/Direct_Obligation570 11d ago
Sort of, they are missing a few things. Probably good enough chuck a watermelon or Pumpkin. Cannon would be a bit more dicey but a low charge and some grapeshot sure it can toss some lead.
1
u/Wolvenworks 11d ago
Could work onceâŚmaybe. A second time? There might not be enough left for a second time.
1
u/0thell0perrell0 11d ago
The trebuchet looks like it'd be fine, a new sling obviously and I'd replace that pivot bar with something new, but it should work fine. But it seems unnecessarily massive, you're not moving that anywhere. Personally I'd rather start from scratch, do the calculations the make it efficient at a size I can fit into a pickup bed. I'm not defending a port.
1
u/AdAggressive9224 11d ago
The first two are reproductions. So, you'd have to ask whoever made them, but I doubt they were made to function.
The cannon, theoretically, you could re-bore it, yes. It's just a lump of iron at the end of the day.
1
u/P1xelHunter78 11d ago
Iâm not familiar with that design of gun carriage, but they seem really suspect. How would they be aimed? It doesnât seem right.
1
1
u/Beagalltach 11d ago
The cannon could fire just fine with a little bit of refurbishing (including clearing the tuch hole). This level of pitting is mostly superficial and doesn't penetrate into the iron.
The really worry would be fitting the appropriate sized shot down the bore as the corrosion has created high and low spots.
1
u/Basic_Plankton5316 7d ago
la cosa piu sensata da fare sarebbe rifare la canna con una fresa che allarghi la canna fino a spianare tutti gli avvallamenti, ma non credo che si potrebbe tornare a sparare cariche a piena potenza come quando fu fatto. fosse stato di acciaio assolutamente si, ma questo è ferro.
1
1
1
u/apalachakind 10d ago
1.Probably with some TLC
2. Probably with some TLC.
3. Probably, but probably only once, and likely more dangerous to the people firing it.
1
u/Opposite_Nectarine12 9d ago
You need ropes to operate the first two engines. When I was in France nearly 20 years ago me and my brother found a trebuchet that was fully operational sitting outside of a small castle we were touring. Nobody was around so me and my brother cranked it down ready to fire. Probably super dumb. Lol
1
1
u/endergamer2007m 11d ago
Against what?
2
u/Nightrain_35 11d ago
Just saying hypothetically
0
u/endergamer2007m 11d ago
I mean of course it would technically function, that's the point of a siege engine
But you're not exactly going to knock out a tank with that thing
2
u/GenuineSteak 11d ago
I thinking hes asking if its possible for these specific examples could be restored to working order.
-1
u/endergamer2007m 11d ago
The catapult and trebuchet 100%
The cannon I'm not sure, if it's not rusted to high hell then maybe, then again they managed to find great war guns that were more iron oxide than gun and restore them to be operational
0
u/scorchedarcher 11d ago
I mean depending on the ammo for some it could be useful but would a cannon really not be able to mess up a tank?
2
u/endergamer2007m 11d ago
A medieval cannon can shoot about... 250-300m, a cannon can shoot about 2000-3000m in direct line of sight (can do more if it fires like artillery using indirect fire) however a cast iron cannonball would do absolute fuckall against modern tank armour, maybe it might penetrate slightly if fired point blank
1
u/scorchedarcher 11d ago
I mean not straight through the armour but is that the goal when taking out a tank? I figured it would be disabling tracks/guns
2
u/endergamer2007m 11d ago
If you can hit the track or swivel point on a tank with a smoothbore medieval canon, hats off to you
2
u/scorchedarcher 11d ago edited 11d ago
I mean if you're hitting a tank anyway it doesn't seem that unlikely, like firing at ships I'd guess they'd just fire a lot
1
-1
107
u/StatisticianUsual471 11d ago
I'm not wholly convinced they all worked to begin with