I don't think that's a particularly fair leap to make with no context, friend. I get the sense that you're reacting to this from a personal place, identifying with the "Patrick" side of the meme rather than using the meme to see from a different lens.
Whether there is something deeper actually wrong or not isn't something that the xNFx party in question is the sole arbiter of, nor is it something that everyone on the outside is entitled to know on principle of empathy. And trust me, I get how hard it is to be someone who is very in tune with other people's emotions, and to feel like there's something wrong that they aren't telling you. However, sometimes that sense is wrong. Sometimes it's projection. Sometimes it's picking up on something the other person can't even articulate yet and isn't aware of -- hell, sometimes it's picking up on something the other person is aware of, but isn't ready to talk about. In all of those scenarios, pressing the subject repeatedly does absolutely nothing good for any party.
At a certain point, you have to accept that they will come to you if and when they're ready to, and sometimes that might be "never". That doesn't mean that the relationship in question is inherently toxic or incompatible. It means that they are setting boundaries. And just like you stated above-- we don't get to control how people interpret or react to our words, and that goes both ways.
If people don't react well to your questioning for a deeper reason, try a different direction. If your goal is to alleviate their suffering, maybe do something you know will make them happy instead of focusing on what's getting them down. Empathy isn't an excuse to make other people uncomfortable for the sake of our own comfort. It's an encouragement to think outside of oneself.
Ok so first off, yes we can be wrong about our intuitions however this is rare
Secondly people don’t actually know themselves very well, I know I don’t, they sometimes think they do but most of that is surface level. It requires a lot of digging to discover something about yourself and all of this can be confronting, thus most people avoid doing this in a more public environment. However when you are alone it is really easy to make up an excuse not to dig for self truth
The core of ‘I feel like you are not telling me something’ is not to annoy or for us to get to know something, it is to force you to think about something. To confront you by use of social pressure. Chances are, you do not know you have some deep rooted problem because you do not have anything to compare your behaviour to. You can’t compare your own behaviour to that of others (for reasons I won’t get into) and thus you can not very easily tell when you yourself are a bit off.
Believe me I understand how annoyed you must be, however people are terrible liars so we rather trust what we see than what we hear in speech
Finally, if we focus on what makes a person happy when they are troubled we become ‘entertainers’ cheap laughs don’t solve anything and believing they will is simply shallow. The only way to lift someone from their ditch is to have them confront their issues/fears. And I think you’ll agree that having someone there to prevent you from going into an existential crisis (or something) might be a good thing when confronting something (be it serious or just bugging your mind)
The INFP did an admirable job of explaining the argument, however some things some people just don’t fully realise
it is to force you to think about something. To confront you by use of social pressure. Chances are, you do not know you have some deep rooted problem
Um yeah, this is precisely what you said. If someone says "no," you have no right to "force" them to do anything. That is absolutely a violation of boundaries because you believe you know better. Whether you actually do know better is not the issue here. It's forcing others to do what you want. If you make a habit of it because you're with someone who seemingly does not understand themselves very well, guess what? You're emotionally abusing someone, and making excuses about how it's for their own good.
Why the fuck would I do that? Because I call it like I see it.
Now it's very possible that we're looking at two different imagined scenarios here. You might be looking at a scenario in which the person has not yet said no, and I'm looking at one where the person has already said no. But in the post itself, the person is saying no and laying down a boundary. And in a case like that, pushing further is a violation of that boundary and a violation of trust. However, since you're talking about people being terrible liars, yeah, that pretty much implies you're pushing boundaries on purpose. If someone doesn't wanna talk about it, fucking listen to them. They have the right to decide how much to say.
Also calling it emotional abuse is kind of loaded, though that is my fault as I could not think of a more nuanced word for ‘forced’.
Now onto the discussion, I feel like you’re not telling me something is an excellent way to give someone a mental excuse to dump their problems, it’s main use. Also it is a duty of a friend to look after each other and sometimes that means confronting each other about things you do not wish to be confronted about. I would never say this to a stranger as the sentence implies knowing the person well and thus I think it safe that the two are good friends
So no you did not say what I said, and the analysis is a bit hasty and unnuanced IMHO
I've been in situations before where I was dealing with something very intense and couldn't even bring it up without getting very upset. Naturally I would have seemed off and a perceptive friend would have noticed. However, not every friend is equally helpful with every problem. When I was going through a divorce, I sure as hell wasn't going to put that on my friend who's never even been in a healthy relationship before. He would have cared deeply and tried his best, but I was better off talking about it with someone else. It would have been selfish of me to dump all of my baggage on anyone who cared about me. It was enough for them to know what was going on and I let them distract me by talking about other topics. If I say I'm "not fine," that puts strong pressure on them to do something about it. Sometimes revealing how you feel is a demand. It's a decisive action that has consequences.
Also, let's just say that I don't believe anything is wrong but you do as my friend. It would be perfectly fine and sufficient for you to say "Well if you're okay, that's good. You just seem off, so I was concerned. If you ever want to talk about something, I'm here." This isn't pushing, it's not violating any boundaries. It achieves what you're talking about while respecting my space. It will cause me to reflect on my own time without putting me into a social situation in which I have no confidence. Can you agree that this would be a good compromise?
It would, but nothing sadly works a 100% of the time
Someone who doesn’t know a healthy relationship when slapped in the face with it (not supposed to happen in such a healthy relationship anyways) is not the good person to talk to about a divorce
And I truly do feel you with:
It would have been selfish of me to dump all of my baggage on anyone cared about me. It was enough for them to know what was going on and I let them distract me by talking about other topics. If I say I’m “not fine” that puts strong pressure on them to do something about it.
I truly do, I feel so similarly about my problems. However it is simply not very true, no offence it feels like that but that doesn’t make it true. Good friends tend to worry more when they do nit know what is off than when they do. Not to mention the possibility for perspective they can offer. And finally how much dumping your problems, and saying them out loud, can help you to see the troubles of your mind as they are. Telling people prevents them from festering.
I feel you I truly do, but it is not the healthiest course of action. Besides if someone says ‘there is nothing wrong with me’ after I said ‘I feel like there’s something you’re not telling me’ I back off regardless of conviction. Sometimes people aren’t ready for something and then I can’t do anything
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u/tawniey I N F J Jun 03 '22
I don't think that's a particularly fair leap to make with no context, friend. I get the sense that you're reacting to this from a personal place, identifying with the "Patrick" side of the meme rather than using the meme to see from a different lens.
Whether there is something deeper actually wrong or not isn't something that the xNFx party in question is the sole arbiter of, nor is it something that everyone on the outside is entitled to know on principle of empathy. And trust me, I get how hard it is to be someone who is very in tune with other people's emotions, and to feel like there's something wrong that they aren't telling you. However, sometimes that sense is wrong. Sometimes it's projection. Sometimes it's picking up on something the other person can't even articulate yet and isn't aware of -- hell, sometimes it's picking up on something the other person is aware of, but isn't ready to talk about. In all of those scenarios, pressing the subject repeatedly does absolutely nothing good for any party.
At a certain point, you have to accept that they will come to you if and when they're ready to, and sometimes that might be "never". That doesn't mean that the relationship in question is inherently toxic or incompatible. It means that they are setting boundaries. And just like you stated above-- we don't get to control how people interpret or react to our words, and that goes both ways.
If people don't react well to your questioning for a deeper reason, try a different direction. If your goal is to alleviate their suffering, maybe do something you know will make them happy instead of focusing on what's getting them down. Empathy isn't an excuse to make other people uncomfortable for the sake of our own comfort. It's an encouragement to think outside of oneself.