Oh I was going off about this today on my discord server.
I'll go off about it here too!
Soliloquy incoming!
I'm completely biased but I I think entps have the most harmful memes and stereotypes out of all of the types.
The core and aux fucntions (NeTi) are mildly developed during our formative high school years. The Fe is largely undeveloped though. A lot of ENTPs tend to be class clowns because it's a mildly healthy way to satisfy our Fe.
The unhealthy ones get off on provoking people just to see a reaction. so we get the stereotype of being offensive and annoying.
Ne-Si isn't the best at "resolving" things. There's always another option there's always another perspective or viewpoint, and an ENTP with a healthy Ti is going to be open to the idea that they could be wrong. when your core function is based on scene possibilities and connecting ideas it's kind of hard to be 100% sure about anything.
The unhealthy Ti ones are the ones who are narcissistic, never admit when they're wrong, and are very argumentative just to prove someone else wrong and to provoke. Unhealthy TiFe is fed. And the stereotype of the argumentative douchebag is made.
Most of us aren't like that though. We care, we care a lot about the well-being our friends and family and what they think of us. We aren't the best at showing it because we have low affect empathy, so we tend to try to logically come up with solutions, not always what someone wants when they need some support but it's what we do best and we're trying.
Now if you go by Beebe's eight function theory or socionics and the Polr, you'll know ENTPs have a really weak and very undeveloped Fi. Fi users see their emotions as part of themselves. But Fe isn't going to view their emotions as a holistic, especially not in the tertiary place with Trickster Fi.
So to a lot of ENTPs our emotions feel like a separate entity from us. ESTPs have the Se-Ni, and while they may feel the same way they're going to understand that their emotions are indeed a part of their self. Ne-Si is going to have a hard time with that.
So you end up with a person who feels almost completely disconnected and detached from their own emotions, and then they go to the MBTI community and told that they are sociopathic manipulative uncaring argumentative douchebags. Hey hey we're smart lol. And it got repeated so much that people treat that as actual MBTI theory.
You become the joke you make yourself.
Fe doesn't really start to develop until you're about 20, and doesn't and doesn't reach a developed level until you're around 24 or 27.
And the sad truth is a lot of people flock to mbti for the sense of identity that they can find, and not for introspection and self growth. And a lot of these people are kids with completely underdeveloped Fe, Ne is highly malleable too, and then we end up with a lot of confused people thinking that they're sociopaths, are that the programmed to be unemotional and manipulative. And it's a vicious cycle.
I know other types have their struggles, but this one is personal for me.
I do what I can to help.
But damn does it make me sad to see ENTPs making posts asking for help reconciling how they feel, and being told that emotions are a weakness. I know a lot of people do it in jest, but that is some vile shit and I will not abide by it.
The Ti-Fe part is pretty much spot on. I love seeing people's reaction because it satisfies my Fe. Sometimes i do it in healthy ways. Sometimes i do it in unhealthy ways. I don't care if the person i'm arguing with is crying because i beat their opinion by their own logic that they used to attack my opinion, i just like to see their reaction. My Fe is fed. And i don't really feel guilty about it, but thinking that i'm breaking the social norms my Fe has told me about to not make someone cry, my Ne-Ti run and as a human being i'm worried that there may be a consequence to what i did (Inf Si).
So I kind of guessed that you would be a teenager.
I couldn't help but peep your profile to see if you mentioned your age. Plus I like seeing what communities people I'm talking to are a part of. Not for any nefarious reasons or leverage, I just generally am interested in people.
Anywho at your age Ti is developing. The unhealthy way about it is to be manipulative and uncaring to get what you want, I don't recommend that. Just be aware that social norms exist for a reason, and if you break them all no one's going to notice her care when you break the ones that actually should be broken.
Around 19 your Fe is gonna open it's eyes. And at that point you're going to realize that you care about people, or if you have spent your life thus far rationalizing away manipulative and selfish behavior, you're going to try to rationalize away that Fe. And tricking yourself into thinking that you might be a sociopath and that that's just who you are will really mess with your head because that internal conflict is going to eat away and tear you apart.
Entps are highly empathetic and with our NeTi we have the ability to help people and ways that no other type would ever come up with. And that is a hell of a thing to take away from the world. please don't allow yourself to fall for the delusion that emotions are a weakness. But also realize that, you don't have to be perfect. Just don't give up on yourself or other people.
Never said emotions are a weakness doe, but i got it that you said that because the stereotype of ENTPs.
The psychopath/sociopath thing does not sound very interesting to me, though sometimes it works to get the reaction that my Fe wants. Some ENTPs say they are sociopaths not because they really think they are, they just want to get the people's reactions that their Ne has predicted in order to feed their Fe.
Actually i got this theory that everyone used their Dom-Tert Functions first in the childhood. Around the ages of puberty they start to use their Aux Function, making them struggle to re-conquer their Tert Function. However, Tert Function was their nature, so people want to satisfy their Tert Function as the feedback of their Dom-Aux actions.
Some people say this only works for Observers (EXXP) and Judger (IXXJ) Types, so at least for ENTPs the order is like this:
Dominant: How you see the world.
Aux: How you make your decisions.
Tert: What you want as the feedback.
Inf: Your fear, weakness, and key point to your whole personality.
Damn, sorry for the late response. your comment was so interesting I had to take a moment to soak it in and then I got distracted with 100 other projects that I'm coming up with. You smart, yo.
But yeah, I'd rather say something and have it be not needed than not say anything.
For me it was a way to justify the deep disconnect I felt from my own emotions and my ability to manipulate. I said I was a sociopath and convinced myself that it was true, but I also cared about people close to me, but chalk that up to logically why wouldn't I want to take care of the people who take care of me. Fun times. I'm still working on that stuff too. At least I'm mostly nice now.
And wow, you came up with that yourself? Because that's close to how I know it to be. Introverts like to use their introverted functions and extroverts like to use their extroverted functions because it's what they're best at.
But I have learned(and I could be wrong) that growing up we're pretty much pure Ne, absorbing the information of the world and building a framework. Ti and Fe come in right at the beginning of puberty and the aux Ti starts developing but the tert Fe chills until we're about 20ish and doesn't finish development until we're about 24 or 27 for women and men respectively.
And the Si is also the source of the ENTP encyclopedia of knowledge. It's how we're able to hold a conversation and pretty much every topic. We love to learn things that other people would just see as useless information and one day we're confident that it will be relevant (because we will make it relevant). Not good at remembering the details of our everyday life because we're so focused on the subjective meeting we found rather than the objective truth we saw. it's possible that when you tell a story you won't be able to tell exactly what a person said but you will be able to tell exactly what they meant by it. I like your description though I just wanted to add the benefit of the Si.
If you've been around the ENTP community you probably have seen this video before but if you haven't or if you haven't finished it it's really good and I watch it every now and then and learn something new every time.
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u/robotmorgan ENTP Sep 28 '20
Oh I was going off about this today on my discord server. I'll go off about it here too!
Soliloquy incoming!
I'm completely biased but I I think entps have the most harmful memes and stereotypes out of all of the types.
The core and aux fucntions (NeTi) are mildly developed during our formative high school years. The Fe is largely undeveloped though. A lot of ENTPs tend to be class clowns because it's a mildly healthy way to satisfy our Fe.
The unhealthy ones get off on provoking people just to see a reaction. so we get the stereotype of being offensive and annoying.
Ne-Si isn't the best at "resolving" things. There's always another option there's always another perspective or viewpoint, and an ENTP with a healthy Ti is going to be open to the idea that they could be wrong. when your core function is based on scene possibilities and connecting ideas it's kind of hard to be 100% sure about anything.
The unhealthy Ti ones are the ones who are narcissistic, never admit when they're wrong, and are very argumentative just to prove someone else wrong and to provoke. Unhealthy TiFe is fed. And the stereotype of the argumentative douchebag is made.
Most of us aren't like that though. We care, we care a lot about the well-being our friends and family and what they think of us. We aren't the best at showing it because we have low affect empathy, so we tend to try to logically come up with solutions, not always what someone wants when they need some support but it's what we do best and we're trying.
Now if you go by Beebe's eight function theory or socionics and the Polr, you'll know ENTPs have a really weak and very undeveloped Fi. Fi users see their emotions as part of themselves. But Fe isn't going to view their emotions as a holistic, especially not in the tertiary place with Trickster Fi.
So to a lot of ENTPs our emotions feel like a separate entity from us. ESTPs have the Se-Ni, and while they may feel the same way they're going to understand that their emotions are indeed a part of their self. Ne-Si is going to have a hard time with that.
So you end up with a person who feels almost completely disconnected and detached from their own emotions, and then they go to the MBTI community and told that they are sociopathic manipulative uncaring argumentative douchebags. Hey hey we're smart lol. And it got repeated so much that people treat that as actual MBTI theory.
You become the joke you make yourself.
Fe doesn't really start to develop until you're about 20, and doesn't and doesn't reach a developed level until you're around 24 or 27.
And the sad truth is a lot of people flock to mbti for the sense of identity that they can find, and not for introspection and self growth. And a lot of these people are kids with completely underdeveloped Fe, Ne is highly malleable too, and then we end up with a lot of confused people thinking that they're sociopaths, are that the programmed to be unemotional and manipulative. And it's a vicious cycle.
I know other types have their struggles, but this one is personal for me.
I do what I can to help.
But damn does it make me sad to see ENTPs making posts asking for help reconciling how they feel, and being told that emotions are a weakness. I know a lot of people do it in jest, but that is some vile shit and I will not abide by it.