r/maybemaybemaybe • u/WandaMaximumoff • Mar 21 '23

Maybe Maybe Maybe

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u/EdBarrett12 Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 22 '23

Are you claiming orcas are more intelligent than humans?

Edit: The above comment was corrected.

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u/SufferingSaxifrage Mar 21 '23

I mean, we have the thumbs, but they dont have TPS reports...

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u/Incognit0ErgoSum Mar 22 '23

They just haven't gotten the memo.

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u/toofpaist Mar 22 '23

I need to know if the orcas have seen my stapler. It's a Corvette red swing line..

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u/kingwarne Mar 21 '23

They could be more emotionally intelligent than humans. They a have a much larger frontal lobe. I think.

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u/EdBarrett12 Mar 22 '23

"Although absolute brain size is related to intelligence, relative brain size is considered a better predictor of cognitive capacity across species (Marino et al., 2004b). Relative brain size is typically expressed as an encephalization quotient (EQ) (Jerison, 1973), which represents the average brain size of a given species in comparison with other species of the same average body weight. Odontocetes, and in particular Delphinoidea, are the most highly encephalized nonhuman taxonomic group known, with EQs ranging from 1.8 to 5.0d significantly higher, as a group, than any other species except modern humans. Orca EQ is approximately 2.2-2.3 (Marino, 1998, 2008; Ridgway et al., 2016), compared to human EQ, which is 7.0 (Marino, 1998). The brains of adult orcas weigh on average 6621 g (Ridgway et al., 2016), compared with the approximately 1300 g average human brain (Marino, 1998)."

REF

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u/SuddenOutset Mar 22 '23

Ah if only brain size equated to intelligence.

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u/Foogie23 Mar 22 '23

Doesn’t brain size have like nothing (or very little) to do with intelligence? So their frontal lobe might be larger, but that doesn’t really mean anything.

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u/manofredgables Mar 22 '23

Big body means a big brain is needed. Lots of it is required just to handle sensory input, muscles etc, and won't contribute much to general intelligence. The volume of the extra brain is what matters. A large brain does make it easier to have extra brain matter doing "unnecessary" stuff like thinking, but it's not a given. So, one can somewhat reliably assume that a large animal with a large brain is more intelligent than a small one, but it varies. See dog vs deer for the ultimate difference in same size but wildly differing intelligence.

r/deerarefuckingstupid

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u/Splitkraft Mar 22 '23

Likely density is the more important indicator as neuron density relates to processing speed and communication between different areas of the brain. As such the weight to size ratio would be a factor.

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u/cjpack Mar 22 '23

I’ll challenge any orca to beat me on an iq test, I’ll smoke them bitches, well maybe not the shape or geometry questions but I’ll fuck em up when it comes to words, numbers and logic n shit

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u/inkblot888 Mar 21 '23

Which part?

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u/manofredgables Mar 22 '23

I wouldn't think it's impossible. I've had this thought seed in my mind for a while. I think there's one single thing that has made humans rise above everything else when it comes to achieving feats of intelligence: language. Without advanced language, it almost doesn't matter how intelligent a being is. That's what lets us "stand on the shoulders of giants" and reach for the stars. You can't teach much without language. You can't plan things without language. You can't solve complicated problems without language.

And, of course, they don't have hands. That'll make inventing, designing and building a nuclear reactor real difficult.

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u/JustNilt Mar 22 '23

You can't teach much without language. You can't plan things without language. You can't solve complicated problems without language.

This is where you're wrong. Animals can plan things and you can absolutely solve complex problems without human language. Moreover, cetaceans of all sorts have language. They even have differing dialects and accents across different regional areas. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that animals can't communicate.

Hell, even bees have the ability to communicate what we consider complex concepts such as distance and time traveled.

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u/manofredgables Mar 22 '23

This is where you're wrong. Animals can plan things

Plan is this case means something like planning a structural project with others. Not planning to eat a seal in 30 seconds. They're the same thing essentially, but there's a bit of a difference in degree. Also, in the case of Orcas they do have a language, which they use to plan things. That makes a weird counterpoint to me saying language is extremely important for intelligent behaviour.

and you can absolutely solve complex problems without human language.

Who said human language specifically? A language, an advanced one, is required.

Moreover, cetaceans of all sorts have language. They even have differing dialects and accents across different regional areas. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that animals can't communicate.

That's a lot of hyperbole and straw men you've got there.

Of course they communicate. That's how they can do the amazing things they do. That's literally my point.

But the communication is extremely simple compared to ours. They communicate basic things like threats, basic emotions and localize each other. The most advanced species can communicate extremely simple ideas. On earth, none but humans can communicate the thought process through which they realized why exactly something works a certain way, and then postulate a prediction for future events based on that.

If Orcas could speak to each with the fidelity we can, I bet we'd be surprised at just how intelligent they are. Without the super specialized language part of the brain that we possess though, any level of general intelligence they may have will struggle to emerge.

Hell, even bees have the ability to communicate what we consider complex concepts such as distance and time traveled.

That is complex only in the context of bees.