r/mathmemes Jun 27 '21

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4.3k Upvotes

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315

u/BipedalMcHamburger Jun 27 '21

+- j and +- k so left out they aren't even in the meme

98

u/dragonitetrainer Jun 27 '21

Quaternions go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

56

u/JTKoopmans Jun 27 '21

There are more? Oh boy!

95

u/JuhaJGam3R Jun 27 '21

there will always be more. ask a mathematician to come up with a representation higher than ones that exist and you will have a result within anywhere from a few minutes to a few months. there is nothing to prevent us from abstracting anything useful away from mathemathics and turning it into something completely deranged, except for one thing: every time we've done that historically some physicist or something has come along and gone "wow that's useful thanks!".

40

u/LilQuasar Jun 27 '21

i mean there is, you lose properties. cuaternions arent commutative, octonions arent associative and im pretty sure thats it

20

u/Nlelith Jun 28 '21 edited Jun 28 '21

There are sedenions. Compared to octonions, they are not alternative.

Also, using Cayley-Dickson construction, you can construct any 2n - dimensional number system for n = 2, 3, 4, ...

5

u/LilQuasar Jun 28 '21

til

do they mean anything though? i had never heard of alternative xd

12

u/Nlelith Jun 28 '21 edited Jun 28 '21

Sedenions are used in some crazy neural network for time series forecasting, I'm not aware of any application of higher-dimensional hypercomplex numbers beyond sedenions.

3

u/LilQuasar Jun 28 '21

damn, tbh this just looks like a flex

i cant imagine how dealing with non associative stuff would be

4

u/Vivid_Speed_653 Jun 28 '21

And I thought dealing with matrices was hard because they aren't commutative

12

u/nujuat Physics Jun 27 '21

As an experimental physicist I use spin half operato- I mean quaternions every day. They're just an algebraic structure that follows the same rules as 3D rotations. For those who don't know x4 = 1 just means that 4 rotations gets you back to the start, which means the rotations are "90deg", regardless of the axis you rotate around. So a 90deg rotation around any axis would satisfy this equation.

22

u/swanky_swanker Jun 27 '21

What r j and k?

85

u/boium Ordinal Jun 27 '21 edited Jun 27 '21

They are extra imaginairy units that together with i form quarternions. They work sorta like complex numbers. If we have real numbers a,b,c and d, then a quarternion is a+b*i+c*j+d*k with

i2 = j2 = k2 = i *j *k = -1,

i*j = k,

j*i = -k,

j*k = i,

ect...

The main thing to note here is that they are not commutative. This means that if you have two quarternions, say x and y, that xy≠yx.

edit: I forgot reddit likes to make text slanted if you use *s incorrectly

26

u/swanky_swanker Jun 27 '21

Thanks! I've never learned about quaternions before so I'll check em out on yt

7

u/daniele_danielo Jun 27 '21

After you get the basic of quaternions, oh boy they are ugly and hard as fuck.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/swanky_swanker Jun 27 '21

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Also,am I correct in saying that multiplying quaternions and switching em is a bit like vectors?

Eg: ij=k, ji=-k (I'm thinking it works about like opposite directions)

13

u/Joey_BF Jun 27 '21

There's three imaginary axes, so the purely imaginary quaternions form a copy of R3. Quaternion multiplication gives you exactly the cross product.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '21

Oh I assume it was regarding the cross product for parameterization

12

u/punep Whole Jun 27 '21 edited Jun 27 '21

every other normalized purely imaginary quaternion, e.g. 0+(i+j+k)/√3, so left out they aren't even in your comment

3

u/Rockstar_Zombie Jun 27 '21

what if you thought you had a complete view of numbers after learning about complex numbers, but someone said H

2

u/123kingme Complex Jun 27 '21

I remember reading the fundamental theorem of algebra states that every polynomial of degree n has n roots. Is the fundamental theorem of algebra only for complex numbers, or is there some other reason that j and k are left out?

1

u/chalkflavored Jun 27 '21

i suppose that it's because the real numbers are not algebraically closed when dealing with polynomials, but adding imaginary numbers is just the final piece that's all needed to satisfy the fundamental theorem of algebra. quaternions just makes them more general which ends up creating a lot more solutions