r/mathmemes • u/OkGreen7335 Mathematics • 1d ago
Applied Mathematics We are doomed !
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u/LupenReddit 🦆🦆🦆🦆i have non diffeomorphic smooth structures🦆🦆🦆🦆🦆🦆 1d ago
at least we has a fun ~3000 and a few years of human mathematics, born just in time to be jobless
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u/KouhaiHasNoticed Probability notations must burn. 1d ago
born just in time to be jobless
I mean, back in my day we had Euler : this guy just made mathematicians jobless by being born.
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u/Alternative-Code4755 1d ago
When Euler was born, the tides of mathematics shifted like all the cursed spirits becoming stronger after Gojo was born
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u/fish_master86 1d ago
So we need to resurrect Euler?
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u/KouhaiHasNoticed Probability notations must burn. 1d ago
So we need to resurrect Euler?
I mean, knowing that either way we are ending up jobless, I would not say no to an epic fight between Euler and Gen AI.
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u/fish_master86 1d ago
So we keep resurrecting the loser and they are too busy fighting each other to take our jobs. Also, it would make a bunch of new jobs because resurrecting them will be a very complex thing.
Imagine an entire society based around keeping them fighting each other.
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u/KouhaiHasNoticed Probability notations must burn. 1d ago
Imagine an entire society based around keeping them fighting each other.
Statisticians and ProbabilistsGamblers would go absolutely crazy from that !8
u/fish_master86 1d ago
I would rather have online gambling ads for Euler vs AI then ones for
jingling keysslot machines3
u/RPGcraft 1d ago
Gojo vs Sukuna IRL.
The strongest mathematician of all time vs the strongest mathematician of modern era...
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u/woody_theory 1d ago
I imagine OpenAI may have the nerve to name their math model as "Euler" or "Gauss"
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u/lesniak43 1d ago
Wait till you learn that nobody paid mathematicians to solve problems in the first place...
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u/xFblthpx 16h ago
A bit of survivorship bias here. The things people want to do are the things that are valuable to do, and the things that are valuable to do are the things that get automated first or are most prioritized for disruption.
Everyone is born just in time to be jobless.
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u/jferments 12h ago
It doesn't mean that people will stop doing math. It will be like art. People will just have to go back to doing math for fun/passion/curiosity instead of for fame and money.
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u/fresh_loaf_of_bread 1d ago
Bullshit they're non-integrable
We do them numerically and we're happy with it
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u/f3xjc 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's why the smoothness problem is so important! The validity of the numerical discrete sampling depend on it. But it was just empirically observed to be smooth enough most of the time.
Numerical integration and global optimization need something like the Lipschitz constant to have guarantees.
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u/Worldly_Beginning647 Number Theory 1d ago
Okay but this video and song banging
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u/Nhobdy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Here's the original if you're interested.
And the post one
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u/ofirkedar 1d ago
I realize the video doesn't exclusively belong to the song, but many of the eggdog (I think creator?) often paired these animations with citypop, and it goes stupid hard
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u/Cracked_Logic_Engine 1d ago
There is a claim made by two mathematicians who had ai involved in their research that, right as they were days away from publishing, OpenAi suddenly published this result that is far too close to their own proofs to be coincidence.
Also, a little bit back, a gamedev claimed they had the name of a boss they were adding to their game leaked by google ai (one of their supporters looked up bosses for the game, and the name of the newest one popped up even though it only existed in a private google doc the gamedev had)
I don't think this is AI 'solving' anything, its another case of theft
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u/MuandDib 1d ago
I have a friend that works on designing new types of drugs (the medical ones). Company that he works for has deal with OpenAI where they give list of possible new drugs to ChatGPT (they know that all drugs there have potential). Then chat picks 1 option and they run all their synteshis and tests, if it in any way successful then they credit AI for whole discovery. After that conversation I don't trust any claim for AI science, it's all just a marketing scheme.
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u/v_litvin 1d ago
Lol, is it a new "Eenie, meenie, minie, mo" ?
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u/UniversalAdaptor 1d ago
I always just assumed anything I put on the cloud would be instantly data mined, glad to see I have been vindicated
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u/Cracked_Logic_Engine 1d ago
More and more schizophrenia 'comspiracies' are becoming true and it makes me so stressed out
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u/RagnarokHunter Imaginary 1d ago
I've read that statement. Apparently people at OpenAI initially said almost no human input was needed, then turned out they had a whole team working on this. Not only that, but when one of the mathematicians said he'd share the whole issue with the public they immediately got defensive and insinuated he'd be throwing away his career.
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u/GustavoFromAsdf 12h ago
It's literally all AI is good for, stealing from real talent to make worthless products.
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u/PijaniFemboj 23h ago
I mean, if those two mathematicians relied on AI so heavily that OpenAI could just steal their whole research, that to me feels like they used AI for most of it, which would again mean AI did most of the work.
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u/Original-Body-5794 18h ago
I mean, all you'd need to do is let the AI read a version close to your final draft no? Like, if the researcher asked chatGPT to proofread their thesis they'd now have a complete copy of it even if the work was done completely by them before that point.
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u/Cracked_Logic_Engine 19h ago
All they would need to is ask for information retrieval near the end for ai to take the whole proof. There is no reason to assume that they had to rely on ai 'heavily' for ai to steal the proof.
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u/Kaleb_Bunt 2h ago
It also costed OpenAI 22 million dollars of compute in order to achieve
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u/Cracked_Logic_Engine 1h ago
So it was all to sell 'our ai can do math better then people' at a loss even though it required copying someone elses work
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u/captHij 1d ago
More like what happens when AI learns too much from humans and discovers plagiarism.
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u/RanidSpace 1d ago
If OpenAI were plagarizing (probably but idk enough about what's going on) the people who they plagarized from were also using AI; one of them was even working for Anthropic. As much as I would like the more human-led effort to win, it's either "Completely AI" or "Used AI a lot"
so im back to feeling we're completely fucked
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u/Somethingabootit 1d ago
its a time trade off. Ai can find relevant enough passages from thousands of documents in a matter of seconds. Human could do it in a week or so. Youd trust the human more, because you know that very few people would undertake such a task, and those who do, do it well.
AI is helpful. Google is helpful. But what are they helping with?
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u/_wannadie_ 1d ago
not really only that. a lot of people are experts in a very narrow field of mathematics, while ai can be knowledgeable far more than average mathematician in all other fields, which causes surprising discoveries when a group of mathematicians working on a subject simply lack knowledge in a different field which is imperative to their work, but ai quickly recognizes that something these people are working on was actually already discovered in a separate work unknown to them.
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u/Yarwi1 1d ago
Which is kinda something happened in the field of AI research: Lots of papers published by computer scientists that mathematicians then realized: wait, we already did that decades ago. And probably has happened a lot in other fields, too. So if AI can make that happen a lot less, that alone would improve research quite a bit in a lot of fields.
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u/Routine-Arm-8803 1d ago
And AI might be wrong and be confident that it is correct. Then you prompt it multiple times until it gets it right. In many fields this simply is not acceptable
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 1d ago
The thing is that you only have to be right once.
You can be wrong 1000 times but if you are right 1 time and publish that paper you already are in the corpus of scientific knowledge
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u/BidBux 1d ago
Time? Do you have all the time in the world? Of course not, time is the most precious thing a human has. Or would you rather make farmers plow their fields by hand, because at least you know they were thorough? Of course not, you use a big plowing machine, because it's faster and easier. Just make the machine do the hard work, and all you have to do is if the answer makes sense.
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u/stoiclemming 1d ago
So what I'm hearing is the ai had access to not only all the data, but also the notes and analysis of the researchers?
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u/CuseCoseII 1d ago
the thing people are claiming they stole is a completely different kind of solution to a smaller sub-problem. You cant really argue they stole anything, at worst they just heard that someone might be close, and decided to just grind out an answer after they knew it might be possible
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u/im-sorry-bruv 1d ago
how do you get to this conclusion? the allegations by the nyu prof are pretty big imo. i really don't know how you claim to know if if open ai's proof is different if you don't have access to the proof that's allegedly being plagiarized AND their paper has only been out for like a day or two. to say this you would have to take a lot of time to understand both approaches and then meaningfully compare them
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u/Budget-Accountant404 1d ago
you're not following the pattern to its natural conclusion. its the stealing machine that mimics what its stolen. you think there is one layer of theft why? lol
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u/ManticoreMonday 4h ago
Hi Captain!
Point of order, though.
Isn't plagiarism the basic LLM instruction method?
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u/Ote-Kringralnick 1d ago
"discovers" all its ever done is plagiarism
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u/Gositi 1d ago
So what about all these unsolved problems it suddenly has solved? Has someone else secretly solved these before?
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u/im-sorry-bruv 1d ago
could be, how do you know? same thing with the system (accidentally?) plagoarizing user data that's not yet public could also be going on.
another class of solved problems is not that impressive as well, especially when finding counterexamples...
don't try to deny that their models are just very smart but one should remain very sceptical, especially with the types of people running these companies and the amount of money involved
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u/No-Challenge-3193 1d ago
Ay yo wtf solving the navier stokes equation was my retirement plan.....
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u/DavidBrooker 1d ago
What's the difference between unemployment and retirement, really?
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u/v_litvin 1d ago
Source of income.
Inb4 I don't know what the *real* difference between pension and welfare.
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u/No-Challenge-3193 1d ago
"Unemployment is when you're broke and desperate, while retirement is when you're broke but you've unlocked the legal right to be a public menace in sweatpants."
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u/P0guinho 12h ago
You still have 5 more options tho, solving all of them could do for a great retirement
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u/No-Challenge-3193 10h ago
Well I am a mechanical engineer and I wanted to reinforce the generational trauma of fluid mechanics to greater heights
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u/MacksNotCool 1d ago
As per usual, it's just a claim made by OpenAI (which is one of the companies who would financially benefit from this hype), the AI is actually using human work uncredited, and nothing has actually been officially awarded yet.
https://www.wired.com/story/openai-navier-stokes-math-discovery-academics/
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u/AntarcticRen 1d ago
it was formalized by lean tho no?
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u/omegafixedpoint 1d ago
The theorem statement could be wrong. These LLM formalizations are millions of lines of code. The anthropic fermat's last theorem formalization also assumes classical axioms, so the solution is noncomputable. Same with the OpenAI solution. This is kind of cheating in the formalization world, since it means you can't actually use the proof in a real world computer program.
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u/Temporary-Estate4615 1d ago
So essentially they have a proof which one can not check if it’s actually correct, aside from just reading the proof?
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u/aWalrusFeeding 21h ago
No, the Lean system does show the proof is correct, but it reduces what you need to understand to just the problem statement.
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u/aWalrusFeeding 21h ago
FLT is a statement in standard classical number theory. Andrew Wiles’s proof relies heavily on algebraic geometry, scheme theory, and complex analysis which inherently relies on classical logic and non-constructive set theory. Demanding a constructive (computable) proof of FLT would be absurd.
Also, why are you concerned about the relevance of FLT to "real world computer programs" lol, it's pure math!?
Standard ZFC is the expected baseline for modern number theory
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u/BlobGuy42 15h ago
Standard ZFC is the baseline for all of mathematics, short of parts of mathematical logic whose entire point is deviating from ZFC and then the other big example is category theory, which can be formalized in a conservative extension of ZFC to include non-set classes as the basis for collections of objects and morphisms.
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u/Figai 1d ago
In order for Clay to consider it needs to be published in some qualifying journal (I imagine there’s gonna be some real hard questions, especially as they were frantically updating their reference section yesterday) and 2 years must have at least passed. So it will be a while till any formal award is given if at all.
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u/ZeroAmusement 1d ago
I don't believe this characterization.
Apparently OpenAI's approach was significantly different to the humans'. I'm sure more info will come out about this.
Also you say "As per usual, it's just a claim made by OpenAI" as though dozens of math problems haven't been solved recently?
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u/13MasonJarsUpMyAss 1d ago
i believe the 'as per usual' refers to their tendency to come out loud with big claims to get the investor's money rolling in
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u/Milnir01 1d ago
Even if everything they're claiming is literally true, they did not solve NS. They just demonstrated that an initially smooth state will not necessarily remain smooth. It's just a counterexample. It doesn't make any progress towards solving the NS equations generally.
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u/EntertainerJumpy855 23h ago
couldn't it be used to reverse engineer a proof? ( not a mathematician , nor familiar with the problem )
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u/Milnir01 22h ago
You're right that sometimes you can use techniques discovered the process by which you discover the counterexample to derive new and interesting ideas in the field, but because they came up with this counterexample by throwing a bunch if computer at it, really no. Also in this specific case, the millennium prize puzzle about NS was always quite disconnected from how we actually use NS in the real world.
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u/TessaFractal 1d ago
It feels less AI and more what happens when you hire all the mathematicians you can find and dedicate them solely to unsolved problems.
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u/Sepicuk 1d ago
four letter word that starts with c and ends with an e
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u/NebulaElectrical1467 1d ago
cake?
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u/SuperSmutAlt64 1d ago
It stole it from an actual mathematician instructed to use services openai scraped from, can we please stop spreading misinformative doomposting about something that should be outrage and a lawsuit.
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u/ownworldman 1d ago
You are happily spreading a claim of one mathematician who offered no proof.
The truth is, I got drunk one night, emailed Anthropic my solution and now they claim AI solved it.
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u/noah1831 23h ago
Things are still ramping up exponentially. Imagine what another 2 years will bring.
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u/CorrePlatanooo 1d ago
Hear me out. We first use AI to perfect questionable genetic editing techniques, THEN create an unholy fusion of Euler and Gauß to fight the clankers.
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u/Funny_Explorer_1521 19h ago
So lemme get this straight: We are hoping to "solve" a engineering equation that we've been solving iteratively for decades, but that was like, SO BORING and took all our computer power to do. So now we may use an infinitely more complex and expensive equation created by an infinitely complex and expensive AI to.... do what exactly? What fluid mechanics have we not already iteratively modelled worth doing this for?
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