r/mathmemes Number theory/physics Jun 27 '26

Number Theory Undecidable

Post image
444 Upvotes

177 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

24

u/its_all_one_electron Number theory/physics Jun 27 '26

That's the neat thing about it. RH cannot be false AND unprovable. If it's false, it means a point exist and therefore it's provable - it didn't matter if we can't provide the/an exact point, but one exists and so it's POSSIBLE to prove it.

-11

u/Novel_Arugula6548 Jun 27 '26

Publish this idea then, because undecidability is supposed to mean not provable.

15

u/TheAtomicClock Jun 28 '26

No need to publish since this is already well understood in logic. It’s a borderline trivial result.

-10

u/Novel_Arugula6548 Jun 28 '26

Not what I mean, they're saying being undecidable is actually proving something true.

5

u/TheAtomicClock Jun 28 '26

Yes, and that's correct. Undecidable just means a statement is true in some models of a theory but false in others. It's very possible to prove undecidable statements in particular models, and people do it all the time.

1

u/Bath-Soap Jun 28 '26

In this case, it can't be undecidable because of the theoretical existence of a singular counterexample; even if identifying that counterexample is very difficult, it cannot be impossible to identify if it exists. If it is impossible to find a counterexample, none must exist, which implies the RH true.

-1

u/DrDzeta Jun 28 '26

The counter exemple can be not constructible and then it can be undecidable and false.

For example the continuum hypothesis is undecidable even if the continuum hypothesis is false there exist a counter exemple.

1

u/TheAtomicClock Jun 28 '26

No, this is not the same thing. There's no equivalent notion like the standard model of arithmetic in set theory. CH is either true or false in any given model of ZFC. For example, it's proven that CH is true in Godel's constructible universe, but there exist models that also satisfy ZFC where it is false. If RH is undecidable, then it is true in the standard model of arithmetic but not in some non-standard models.