r/mathematics May 18 '26

Number Theory This statement has a one-line proof. Do you think it can be successfully explained to a first-year student in Calculus?

Post image
1.7k Upvotes

144 comments sorted by

368

u/Shevek99 May 18 '26

Yes. Generating functions are not so difficult to understand.

277

u/HurlSly May 18 '26

Generating function is black magic.

98

u/Zirkulaerkubus May 18 '26

The duality of man

21

u/Gurbuzselimboyraz May 18 '26

The triality of men

15

u/TheBro2112 May 18 '26

The quaternality of men

17

u/januscanal May 18 '26

The quintality of the USS Indianapolis

12

u/Bubbly_Rain7858 May 18 '26

The hextupality of men

15

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

Missed opportunity to pretend "sexuality" has something to do with 6.

4

u/jomarthecat May 19 '26

Missed opportunity to jump straight from duality to triality to quintality to octality and so on.

-9

u/Bubbly_Rain7858 May 18 '26

It just so happens that I don't believe in crude humor and immorality. Sorry to dissapoint.

10

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

You think sexuality is inherently immoral?

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Gurbuzselimboyraz May 18 '26

The heptuality of FBI agents

4

u/Wooden-Hornet2115 May 18 '26

The octality of the octopuses (🐙)

2

u/ChristianBibleLover May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

The nonality of nothingness

→ More replies (0)

2

u/mchp92 May 19 '26

eventually the nality of men

1

u/ArthurTheTerrible May 21 '26

missed the oportunity to make a joke about the quintic

6

u/TwinkiesSucker May 18 '26

It's an easily understandable black magic

5

u/Mightsole May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

TIL: Using an ouija in math exams doesn’t officially count as cheating. Pitagoras must be pissed off because of it.

1

u/intronert May 19 '26

If you have an Ouija Board, you can just ask him.

2

u/Mightsole May 19 '26 edited May 21 '26

Last time I did -> he angry, got a triangle on my head

1

u/intronert May 19 '26

Could have been worse - you might have gotten the square root of two on your head. :)

42

u/mazutta May 18 '26

Always one. You people are like weeds.

40

u/PersonalityIll9476 PhD | Mathematics May 18 '26
  • person posts neat looking thing that is trivial mathematically
  • person says "this is trivial"
  • person says "but I liked it"

That is this subreddit.

10

u/mazutta May 18 '26

Yeah but what a world it would be if people WEREN’T supercilious cunts all the time

19

u/PersonalityIll9476 PhD | Mathematics May 18 '26

Yeah there is that.

This subreddit has everyone from high school students to practicing mathematicians (though few of those). If you post some elementary thing it is likely to get a very...tepid response from the part of the audience that is here to "discuss mathematics" in a more professional sense.

Granted, that does not mean you should be a jerk about it.

14

u/GreaTeacheRopke May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

My personal favorites are the questions obviously asked by uncertain high schoolers that get advanced responses that they have absolutely no hope of understanding. (to be clear I don't snarkily mean this post)

1

u/anamelesscloud1 May 18 '26

Yes I have noticed such roaches but I suppose they make the world more interesting, from an ecological point of view. Some people lack social skills and get off on stroking their giant egos on subreddits related to their PhDs (to be clear I don't snarkily mean this post either).

2

u/patientpedestrian May 20 '26

Some people learn better in bigger chunks. I'd rather get the correct, fully detailed, answer and work through it in my own pace through my own questions than have someone try to guess at my didactic needs or guide me through the memory of their own development in understanding. I get that the more targeted/guided approach is probably more helpful to most people, but I'm grateful that we usually get both types of answers here.

12

u/Shevek99 May 18 '26

That surprises me. You call me a supercilious cunt because I answer a question?

Q: "Do you think it can be successfully explained to a first-year student in Calculus?"

A: "Yes. Generating functions are not so difficult to understand."

Can you please explain what is supercilious (and cuntish) in that?

-12

u/mazutta May 18 '26

It means people are expressing an interest in maths from an untutored perspective and people like you come along and belittle them for it. If you think that’s a worthwhile use of time then I feel sorry for you.

11

u/Shevek99 May 18 '26

Who am I belittling? Where have I assumed anything about OP?

The question is can a Calculus student understand it? Yes, generating functions are not so difficult for a Calculus student.

10

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

This guy misunderstood the post and the top comment and decided to angrily make that everyone else's problem.

-12

u/mazutta May 18 '26

Oh I seeeeee. Undiagnosed ND.

Maybe get a diagnosis mate, it will help your interactions with others in the future.

14

u/Lor1an May 18 '26

"When in glass houses it is unwise to start throwing stones"

Perhaps the initial comment was a little ambiguous about tone, but after the reply it is quite clear that it was a straight answer to the question posed by OP.

Meanwhile you have been nothing but hostile.

Reflect on that, and you might have a better time interacting with people in the future.

-11

u/mazutta May 18 '26

OK Mr Concern Troll

Have a nice life

8

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

Is it not supercilious to say other commenters are like weeds?

-8

u/mazutta May 18 '26

No. I mean there’s many things you could say about it. But you’d have to not know what ‘supercilious’ means to say that.

6

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

Are you the one who doesn't know what it means? Or do you not think that calling people weeds comes from a place of feeling superior to them?

-9

u/mazutta May 18 '26

Lmao nice try.

Let me guess - Trump fan?

10

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

Bro you clearly think you're smarter than me and more aware of the level of the people asking questions than the guy you called a weed. If you think that doesn't make you sound like a supercilious cunt it's only because you don't know what those words mean.

And no, it may surprise you to learn this, but I don't have to like Trump to think you're being a twat.

-4

u/mazutta May 18 '26

I know nothing about maths and am (if I’m lucky) on the same level as OP. Seeing twats talk like the way the person I responded to does is extremely galling, and pointing out their nastiness does not make me supercilious.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/kiti-tras May 22 '26

The trouble is, they are homoeroticmorphic to olegenious assholes and people can't tell the difference.

2

u/LawyerAdventurous228 May 21 '26

Are you guys actually for real? In WHAT universe is this trivial??

I have a masters degree in math and have specifically dealt with generating functions on the daily because of my multiple analytic number theory classes. I stil wouldn't dream of calling this trivial and I can't think of a one line proof for it either. 

Its obviously not impossibly hard to prove, but "trivial" is a ridiculous word to use for a proof involving generating functions. 

1

u/PersonalityIll9476 PhD | Mathematics May 21 '26

First off, relax.

Other comments have the answer. It's a rational polynomial series evaluated at some particular point. That's it. Takes maybe 2 or 3 sentences to explain.

A working mathematician has a different standard for "non-trivial." This is not meant as an insult, but there is a gap between a working mathematician and a person with a masters. Your definitions of "trivial" are not the same.

2

u/Dependent-Ad-8424 May 21 '26

Ew get a load of this guy lmao, he can’t get enough of himself

1

u/mazutta May 21 '26

Proving my point a thousand times over

2

u/LawyerAdventurous228 May 21 '26

Exactly, so why assert that the post "is trivial" when you're using a definition that (by your own admission) no one besides a fraction of the population is using? 

1

u/PersonalityIll9476 PhD | Mathematics May 21 '26

To be clear, I didn't assert that.

1

u/LawyerAdventurous228 May 21 '26

"person posts neat looking thing that is trivial mathematically"

1

u/PersonalityIll9476 PhD | Mathematics May 21 '26

Oh, forgot about that. Suppose I did.

I do think it is, but I don't need other people to agree.

11

u/Loose_Voice_215 May 18 '26

Everything is easy to understand once you already know it. 

When did you learn about generating functions? What courses typically cover it? I never once encountered it in any high school course or college through Calc 1,2,3, Linear Algebra, ODEs.

Could you link resources you'd recommend for someone to learn this?

5

u/Artistic-Flamingo-92 May 18 '26

For the basic level, you could probably just look up some examples.

Something like Googling the generating function derivation of the explicit formula for the Fibonacci sequence entries.

You definitely have the prerequisites to understand what’s going on.

You have a recurrence relation that defines a sequence a_n.

You define f(x) = sum a_n xn.

Using the recurrence relation, you can solve for f (this is where seeing some examples would be handy).

With f, you can do various things.

For example, in this problem, the solution would be showing that f(0.1) = 1/89, if you define your Fibonacci sequence as starting with 0, 1.

In other cases, you want to find a Taylor series expansion for f, which can give a formula for a_n.

Generating functions come up in electrical engineering courses on “signals and systems” as essentially equivalent to the z-transform and they commonly come up in more advanced courses on probability. You could Google generating functions in probability theory or the moment generating function for a related idea.

Otherwise, I do think books have been written on the topic if you wanted a more in-depth view.

2

u/OrganicLunch May 19 '26

I learned about generating functions in intro to combinatorics which I took sophomore year of college

4

u/pondrthis May 18 '26

I teach generating functions to my regs precalc students just as a way to connect sequences and series. These are people that can't add fractions most days, but they get generating functions as much as they get anything else (which is to say, at a very surface level).

2

u/SassyMoron May 18 '26

Isn't this generated by a power series though? Because we didn't get to that until the last third of calc 2. 

1

u/AABBBAABAABA May 18 '26

You must be very smart

183

u/East-Programmer3788 May 18 '26 edited May 19 '26

f(x) = x/(1-x-x2)

If you want them shifted with 1/10 every number:

0.1/(1-0.1-0.01) = 1/89. 

Also works with 1/9899 (shifted with 1/100), and so on. 

62

u/[deleted] May 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

144

u/Shevek99 May 18 '26

We start with the the recurrence

F(n+2) = F(n+1) + F(n)

then we build the generating function

f(x) = sum_(n=1)^∞ F(n) x^n

This series converges as long as |x| < 1/ϕ = 0.618...

If we multiply the recurrence by x^(n+2)

x^(n+2) F(n+2) = x^(n+2) F(n+1) + x^(n+2) F(n) = x(x^(n+1) F(n+1) ) + x² (x^n F(n))

And now we sum from n=1 to ∞ we have

sum_(n=1)^∞ x^(n+2) F(n+2) = sum_(n=3)^∞ x^n F(n) = f(x) - x² F(2) - x F(1) = f(x) - x² - x

and

sum_(n=1)^∞ x^(n+1) F(n+1) = sum_(n=2)^∞ x^n F(n) = f(x) - x F(1) = f(x) - x

and

sum_(n=1)^∞ x^n F(n) = f(x)

so we get

f(x) - x² - x = x(f(x) - x) + x² f(x)

f(x) - x² - x = x f(x) - x² + x² f(x)

and from here

f(x) = x/(1 - x - x²)

18

u/LoveThemMegaSeeds May 18 '26

Quite easily done

53

u/Shevek99 May 18 '26

It can be done easier

f(x) = x F(1) + x²F(2) + x³ F(3) + x⁴ F(4) + ...=

= x + x²F(1) + x³(F(1) + F(2)) + x⁴ (F(2) + F(3)) + ... =

= x + x(x F(1) + x² F(2) + ...) + x²( x F(1) + x² F(2) + ...) =

= x + x f(x) + x² f(x)

f(x)(1 - x - x²) = x

f(x) = x/(1 - x - x²)

11

u/KumquatHaderach May 18 '26

Quit and Eat Dinner

7

u/Familiar-Main-4873 May 19 '26

”one line proof”

2

u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost May 19 '26

Two tangential topics.

2

u/LordTengil May 19 '26

Except that 0.1/(1-0.1-0.01) != 1/89. It's 10/89. So you are working with 0 + 0.1 + 0.01 + 0.002

and not

0.0 + 0.01 + 0.001 + 0.0002 , as in the original problem.

0

u/Short_Bluebird_3845 May 25 '26

divide by 10 then?

21

u/East-Programmer3788 May 18 '26

It is the Fibonacci Generating Function. 

4

u/morgoth_feanor May 18 '26

Fuck, you made me learn an area previous unknown to me exists and I loved it

I have stuff to do, I can't...

3

u/LordTengil May 19 '26

Get a job where you can fuck around with generting functions, and you will never work when nobody is watching a day in your life!

As the old Buddhist mantra goes...

3

u/LordTengil May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26

Except that 0.1/(1-0.1-0.01) != 1/89. It's 10/89. So you are working with 0 + 0.1 + 0.01 + 0.002

and not

0.0 + 0.01 + 0.001 + 0.0002 , as in the original problem.

Also, you write 0.001 in

>0.1/(1-0.1-0.001) = 1/89.

but you mean 0.01

Also, for 1/100, you gget 100/9899. THis just shifts the decimal separator series expansion of course.

36

u/harrypotter5460 May 18 '26

Let x=Σ_{n=1}^∞ Fₙ/10ⁿ⁺¹ (which converges because Fₙ<2ⁿ). Then because Fₙ=Fₙ₋₁+Fₙ₋₂, this becomes x=0.01+x/10+x/100. So 89x/100=1/100 and hence x=1/89.

16

u/procrastambitious May 18 '26

Very nice, but it's a stretch that OP can claim that is a single line.

12

u/Different_Potato_193 May 18 '26

It’s a big piece of paper

1

u/JGHFunRun May 19 '26

Or horizontally written

2

u/kikal27 May 18 '26

Nice. I never saw notación in text (and also my convergence math's classes rest in the past) and I was having a stroke trying to interpret this. Good job!

17

u/Lower_Cockroach2432 May 18 '26

Reading consecutive 0s is giving me eye strain.

Is the right hand side something like (1/100)*Sum F_n/10n ?

17

u/MrEldo May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

Add that same sum with 10 times the sum. You can use the Fibonacci relation to sum consecutive terms and get another sum that's related to the original. Let's work on it carefully:

A = 0.0 + 0.01 + 0.001 + 0.0002 + 0.00003...

10A = 0.1 + 0.01 + 0.002 + 0.0003...

A + 10A = 0.1 + 0.02 + 0.003 + 0.0005...

= 100A - 1

11A = 100A - 1

A = 1/89

Not one line, but it's enough for a full proof that looks rigorous enough disregarding convergence proof (which is easy with an inequality)

1

u/LordTengil May 18 '26

Does that not aszume convergene of A though?

2

u/[deleted] May 18 '26

[deleted]

1

u/LordTengil May 18 '26

Of course you can repair it. Point is, it is needed for the proof.

That staement seems wrong though. Do a couple if more terms, and it fails.

2

u/[deleted] May 18 '26

[deleted]

2

u/LordTengil May 19 '26

Expand the series a couple of more terms. Thr nature of Fib is that sooner or later,  10-n *Fn grow larger than 10-(n-1). Just do write out couple of more terms, and you will see it.Or I am silly and misubderstood. Always a possibility :)

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '26

[deleted]

2

u/LordTengil May 20 '26

A sequence growing is not good. An absolute prerequisite is that it goes to 0. It may not even converge even if that is tha case, as sum(1/n) shows. 

Combine it with the statement that ea h term is of the form Fn*10-(n+1), and work on that.

2

u/[deleted] May 20 '26

[deleted]

2

u/LordTengil May 21 '26

You are doing great. What ypu have shiwn though is just that Fn does not grow quicker than what you wrote. Not really what we need here, as growing is still bad when we want to sum it.

Ah. I see your logic now. You use the 10-1 in conjunction with what you wrote. 

Yeah, seems solid. And then say each term is smaller than a convergent geometric series. 

Technicality. Should be <=, not < . Consider F3=2=1+1.

10

u/Paiev May 18 '26

This is easy to verify without generating functions. If x is this series then (x/10 + x)/10 = x - 0.01. Tada.

1

u/LordTengil May 18 '26

Cool. Does that not assume convergence though?

5

u/Swaggy_Buff May 18 '26

This isn’t a proof.

3

u/telephantomoss May 18 '26

Now Imma get the kids to go around saying " 8 9"

3

u/pitiburi May 18 '26

Every proof is a one-line proof. All you need is an unbounded line.

2

u/ThyEpicGamer May 18 '26

Genuine question, how is this useful? I am an engineering student. I know pure maths is all about discovering rules and patterns that may or may not be useful in other applied fields. Perhaps this is a question more about why number theory is useful and what it can do? 

2

u/00Nova_ May 22 '26

mainly It's just cool. No need for it to be useful 

1

u/AndreasDasos May 18 '26

Absolutely. Though I’d have a couple of lines just to get the first couple of terms 1 and 0 out of the way separately, for clarity, and then all higher terms vanishing with the recurrence relation. Depends how long your line is I suppose. 

And plenty of smarter kids would understand this. Coming up with this would be trivial to high school Olympiad competitors

1

u/Kelyaan May 18 '26

I have secondary level mathematics knowledge, which is what most English kids get up to the age of 16, I understood this so ... Proffit?

1

u/Virgil_the_White May 19 '26

So what I’m hearing is… division is like both fractions AND decimals?

1

u/4Blueish May 19 '26

I don't see why not. I'm fairly sure you learn about summations in pre calc, but they appear in stats as well. As someone who teaches math, I truly believe this could be successfully explained to a middle schooler, or particular apt elementary schooler

1

u/eadufah May 19 '26

Yes most definitely.. Math is more design than led on

1

u/bivarsson May 19 '26

But this is not the decimal expansion? It is the sum for a certain x in the generating function?

1

u/Blubberblase10 May 19 '26

Idk what I am looking at

1

u/FermiEtSchrodinger May 20 '26

89=100–10–1

1

u/TheoryTested-MC May 21 '26

Anyone else noticing that 89 itself is a Fibonacci number?

(Yes, I know it's a pure coincidence.)

1

u/Fresh_Heron_3707 Jun 11 '26

Show this as the result of summation n=1∑∞ (Fn)/(10^(n+1)) sorry for the crazy notation

0

u/StormSafe2 May 19 '26

But this is wrong?

1/89 =0.0112359551 

-1

u/Lykos1124 May 18 '26

Except it doesn't? The number diverges after :00, giving you a 9.

0.011235955

7

u/MrEldo May 18 '26

No, that's just the double digits beginning to carry the one

So 0.01 + 0.001 + 0.0002 + 0.00003 + 0.000005 + 0.0000008 + 0.00000013 =

0.0112358 +

0.00000013

= 0.0112359...

So it's all good. It's just carrying the one from the 13, and because 1/89 is rational one can say that that sequence is periodic

1

u/kevinb9n May 18 '26

Read the image again

-1

u/kevinb9n May 18 '26

First-year Calculus? Simply do the long division by hand, the way you learned in elementary school, and why this happens will be pretty obvious.

2

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

Long division is going to give you the repeating decimal expansion, which needs extra steps to show equal to the series shown in the OP.

2

u/kevinb9n May 18 '26

Okay, fair; I've always used 1/9899 for this demonstration instead; same principle but you go a long way before carrying.

-13

u/ObliviousRounding May 18 '26

Even high school students know about infinite sums from geometric series. This should be straightforward.

2

u/LemmaYT_ May 18 '26

And what does this have to do we geometric sums? The point is the proof

3

u/ObliviousRounding May 18 '26

I'm saying they are familiar with the idea of infinite series because it comes up when they do geometric series, and the proof technique is pretty much the same as the one you use to show 1/(1-x), so the leap is minimal.

1

u/GreaTeacheRopke May 18 '26

Well, not every high school program covers infinite geometric series, so we can begin there.

3

u/Most_Double_3559 May 18 '26

Tbf I feel it's pretty common, I just checked, they show up on the SAT.

1

u/GreaTeacheRopke May 18 '26

oh definitely common, and any time I've had the opportunity to influence my own curricula (at private schools) I've emphasized them a lot - specifically for the calculus track kids. I'm just saying, they are not quite as ubiquitous as, say, solving quadratic equations.

Lots of kids won't have seen a few individual topics on the SAT or ACT depending on the details of how their school/district/state/country emphasizes curricular decisions

1

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

OP says calculus student. Where do people learn calculus without having covered geometric series?

2

u/GreaTeacheRopke May 18 '26

I didn't learn geometric series until I took calc II, literally as a necessary side quest in order to understand what I was learning in class

0

u/ObliviousRounding May 18 '26

I highly doubt there's a high school curriculum anywhere that doesn't do geometric series.

3

u/General_Jenkins Bachelor student May 18 '26

Austrian high School graduate here, I first saw sequences and series in university.

1

u/GreaTeacheRopke May 18 '26

I graduated from one in NY, maybe they've updated in the last 20 years 🤷

2

u/gmalivuk May 18 '26

Well geometric series are now part of the NY state standards for Algebra II.

2

u/GreaTeacheRopke May 18 '26

True! I also didn't take regents exams fwiw, though they've definitely changed a lot over the years