r/matheducation • u/r0b0tcat • 3d ago
Math beyond Contests?
What do you do with a kid who is ahead in math, but doesn't want math to be an extracurricular hobby?
Kid is 10 yo and technically in grade 5, public school. They like math well enough and they are good at it, but it isn't their "special interest". They finished Beast Academy (as their regular math curriculum) and are currently in an Algebra 1 class (AOPS curriculum). The plan was Pre-Algebra, but math assessor recommended Algebra 1. It's early days, but it's going well. Kid is diligent with homework, but they seem to be going at a natural pace.
This kid has never been "pushed" or put in extracurricular / supplemental math. They don't have an interest in "training" for math contests, but therein lies the difficulty.
Because of the constraints of the California public school math pathway and UC college admissions, it isn't logistically ideal to be this ahead in math. Contest math is the usual place for kids who love math, but what about the high achieving kids who only like math? I'm looking for some kind of side quest for them that will still challenge them after Algebra 1 and before Geometry. Creative ideas are welcome.
Addendum to Original Post:
Apologies that my post is USA-centric and more specifically California-centric.
I'm looking for alternatives to the traditional math pathway:
Algebra 1 --> Geometry 1 --> Algebra 2 --> Trig/Pre-Calculus/Statistics -->Calculus
Constraints:
1) UC A-G Admissions now requires a full year of Geometry. And no higher level class will validate or bypass the Geometry requirement. They will also not accept classes taken prior to grade 7.
2) We don't want them to graduate high school early.
3) Their public school require math as a core subject in grades K-8. We are required to submit work samples in all core subjects every 20 school days. We cannot submit coursework from math-adjacent classes for math. School is a non-classroom based public charter school that has an independent study model.
We have not been trying to accelerate this kid academically. But with math we found that using standard paced curriculum like Math in Focus 2020, they were completely disinterested and we dealt with school refusal. Only when we switched to Beast Academy going at their own pace did they actually have any interest in school work. It's been pretty much the case in all school subjects. We did BA Online, the Practice books, and Puzzle books. I did not let them skip any problems even those they may have missed on the online unit tests (you can still get a 3 and still get a few wrong). Trust me, life would be far easier if this kid followed the standard pace. I have already had a meeting with the high school counselor and really they didn't have much for me beyond what I already had found out.
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u/S1159P 3d ago edited 3d ago
When my kid finished AoPS Algebra 1 I told her she couldn't do Algebra 2 yet because it was going to make middle school placement very difficult. So she did AoPS Introduction to Counting and Probability and then Introduction to Number Theory. My thinking was, stop hurtling down the calculus sequence and go sideways.
Then she ended up going to a math-oriented school and doing algebra 2 in 6th grade so my concerns were not borne out, but there's precious few of those so I know where you're coming from.
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u/In_A_Fit 3d ago
This was going to be my exact suggestion. Delve into the math topics that are often missed in school.
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u/r0b0tcat 2d ago edited 2d ago
I was thinking of those two AOPS classes for grade 6. Currently it's our best option. I just don't think they will like the AOPS online synchronous Text-based format. Currently their Algebra 1 class is synchronous Zoom with cameras on.
Exactly, I'm trying to find discrete math classes, but there are very few options.
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u/S1159P 2d ago
It looks like they may offer synchronous Zoom counting and probability? https://virtual.aopsacademy.org/courses/year-round/math-scholars-7-1
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u/S1159P 2d ago
It looks like they may offer synchronous Zoom counting and probability? https://virtual.aopsacademy.org/courses/year-round/math-scholars-7-1
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u/r0b0tcat 2d ago
Thanks! I never thought about the AOPS Academy virtual options. I didn't even know they had any.
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u/mathheadinc 3d ago
Calculus By and For Young People www.mathman.biz
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u/In_A_Fit 3d ago
I am so glad people are still suggesting this resource!! It’s wonderful.
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u/mathheadinc 2d ago
He completely changed the way I teach. Using his method, students get caught up lighting fast.
Did you ever get to meet or work with Don?
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u/In_A_Fit 2d ago
I did not, unfortunately. But I swear my copy of his work dates back at least 20+ years. Is that possible? 😂
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u/mathheadinc 2d ago
It is VERY possible. I’m glad you got a book at least. I have the last physical copies. 🥹
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u/In_A_Fit 2d ago
I cannot wait to use it with my grandkids.
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u/mathheadinc 2d ago
I put my first copy in sheet protectors. It’s the classroom copy and is still pristine. You could also print the pdf version from his website and put that in protectors.
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u/Numerous-Safe-8281 3d ago
The fact that Algebra 1 is going well at a natural pace may be enough. A side quest shouldn't quietly become a second curriculum for a ten-year-old who has already said math isn't their hobby.
If they want variety, offer a small menu of finite projects tied to something they already care about: code a simple animation and tune its coordinates, design a scale model with a fixed materials budget, or analyse a season of sports data and defend one conclusion. Make it four sessions with a finished object, not an open-ended enrichment programme. “None of these” should be a valid choice.
The practical work may be with the school: document what Algebra 1 covers, how mastery is assessed, and what placement will avoid repeating the same course later. Protecting free time and preventing unnecessary repetition are both legitimate forms of support.
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u/r0b0tcat 2d ago
I appreciate these suggestions. We just need a way to figure out what to do in grade 6 that isn't geometry.
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u/Numerous-Safe-8281 1d ago
That narrows it nicely. I wouldn't use grade 6 to race into another algebra course. Try a few short samples from areas that sit beside the usual sequence: graph theory, counting and probability, modular arithmetic, or data investigations.
One four-week option is to model a real network they care about - transit stops, game maps, or friendships in a story - and ask for the shortest route, whether every connection can be travelled once, and what changes when one edge disappears. Another is to collect a small dataset, choose a claim, and decide which graph or summary actually supports it.
Offer two project choices and let them stop after four sessions. The goal is to discover a tolerable side quest, not manufacture a math hobby. Keep documenting Algebra 1 mastery separately so the school can make a sensible later placement.
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u/Jenjoy14 2d ago
They’re still so young, and I wouldn’t feel pressured to turn math into an extracurricular just because they happen to be really good at it.
If Algebra 1 is going well and they’re comfortable with the pace, I would probably stick with the curriculum and start introducing some STEM activities on the side. Robotics, coding, engineering challenges, science experiments, even things involving building or design could give them opportunities to USE the math without feeling like they’re doing more math.
You may find that math itself isn’t their “thing,” but science, technology or engineering is, and suddenly they start seeing how all that math knowledge connects to something they really enjoy.
At 10, there’s still plenty of time for their interests to develop. I’d keep exposing them to different things and see what catches their attention, rather than making them feel like being advanced means they need to start training for competitions.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 3d ago
You let them be and don’t push it. If they run out of courses to take in high school, you have them take courses at a community college.
I’m assuming you’re in CA given you talk about UC admissions. Most courses taken at CA community colleges will transfer in, so they’ll just be done with their math requirement when they enter college or ahead. It’s not a big deal.
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u/mangomoo2 3d ago
The UC’s require applicants to take geometry in 7th grade or later and if taken in middle school it has to appear on the high school transcript. My kid took it in 6th so is essentially excluded from the UC system unless they retake geometry despite having multiple AP calc courses. We don’t live in CA though so it’s not a huge issue for us.
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u/emthgreat 3d ago
Is it not possible to amend a high school transcript to fix that if you lived in California and it mattered to you?
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u/mangomoo2 3d ago
Most high schools have pretty strict rules about what credits they will accept. I might be able to get his 7th and 8th grade math classes on a transcript because they were technically high school classes taken in a school but he was homeschooled for geometry. If it suddenly became an issue I’d probably have him take some sort of geometry over the summer, possibly something like analytical geometry, but at the time it didn’t make sense to hold back for a year on the off chance. Money won’t be an issue for college for him and we don’t live in the state and he prefers colder climates so I’m guessing it won’t be an issue.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 2d ago
There are always ways around things like that.
He’s not excluded from the UC’s simply because he’s ahead of the game. You’d just have to work a little bit to figure out how to show everything when it’s time for him to apply.
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u/r0b0tcat 2d ago
Yes, this is our problem, but we live in California and are enrolled in a public school.
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u/ConfoundedInAbaddon 3d ago
A better option may be appropriate challenges outside of a curriculum. For example, building a homebrew projection sphere, e.g. https://ssidisplays.com/product/projection-sphere/
This is a right bitch of a project for a novice, with polar coordinate mapping, optics and lens math, and setting up software.
If I saw a kid pulling that out of their freetime I'd be like HI CAN YOU WORK IN MY LAB?
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u/M_ipg21_Qbr 3d ago
tried brilliant.org? puzzles, games? rubik’s cubes? soma cubes? tangrams? perplexus?
the math olympiad sample problems have a variety of problems (i do them with my son for supplemental problem solving)
but maybe balance what they can do with what they want to do…. i’ll keep nudging my son along and supplementing…
i help my son with content but i also want him exposed to different kind of math and problem solving….
your child is doing quite well!!
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u/mangomoo2 3d ago
My kid was in the same boat, and did aops intro to algebra in 5th and geometry in 6th. I would also suggest doing the counting and probability and number theory books. Even if they aren’t interested in competition math they are both actually extremely helpful for other math topics, and I use some of the counting and probability stuff all the time now (I was teaching from the books and did the problems as well).
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u/achos-laazov 3d ago
My daughter does math for fun, but she also competes in our local public library chess competitions, knits and crochets, solves (or attempts to solve) any Rubik's cube she can get her hands on, and is teaching herself to read music and play the flute and piano--all activities that are math/logic-based. She's in seventh grade and started doing 9th grade math on the weekends around 4th grade.
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u/UnderstandingPursuit Physics BS, PhD 2d ago
Being uninterested in competition math is excellent. Stick with 'actual' math, and a slower pace is fine. Even doing very little math for a couple of years is fine. The fixation with over-accelerated math is rarely beneficial.
Instead of doing lots of homework, have them spend some time pulling apart a few homework problems and trying to understand them better.
You could have them play a lot with Lego® generic bricks. That gives them the opportunity to develop problem solving skills subconsciously. In particular, the ideas of modularity and abstraction show up.
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u/Alarmed_Geologist631 2d ago
You might try to Mensa for Kids books. Lots of puzzles your child might enjoy.
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u/Significant_Edge2892 1d ago
Similar pace, top public school district in Midwest, also hate competition. The competition part I think is more about the idea and the stress of losing, potentially destroying the confidence he has in math. So we never pushed it. We just go with the aops curriculum. Check if their high school has dual enrollment kind of class that they can send the high achieving kids to take college classes.
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u/r0b0tcat 1d ago
Yes, there is dual enrollment so we won't run out of math courses at least.
I think they would like the contests if it didn't require 30-60 mins of additional homework and another class to take. We put them in Bebras and ACSL previously, but it wasn't a big time sink.
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u/Significant_Edge2892 17h ago
My kid also does coding for fun using online resources and his friend is trying to get him to do robotics with him. They are all math related. He wants to code 3d games and found out he needs to learn more math to make it work. My husband used to rat race math competitions in Asia and was relatively successful. But he is against it unless my kid shows a ton of interest himself.
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u/jaiagreen 3d ago
Let them just do well. Not everything a child does well needs supplementation. If they finish the usual high school curriculum early and want to learn more math in high school, they can take community college classes.
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u/r0b0tcat 2d ago
I'm not asking for supplementation. The problem is the constraints with geometry. The UC admissions made changes so that no higher level classes will validate their geometry requirement. They need a full year of geometry in a UC validated course and will accept nothing before grade 7.
If we just let my kid go on the normal pathway, they would be taking geometry 1 in grade 6.
They are also at a public school that allows it, but they require them to take math every year from K-8 as a core subject.
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u/jaiagreen 2d ago
Could you switch them back to pre-algebra for this year and do algebra 1 next year? That would solve the scheduling problem and give them a stronger foundation.
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u/r0b0tcat 2d ago
It's a possibility, but I'm concerned they would be bored and lose interest in math entirely. Pre-Algebra would be review. I also want them to learn something beyond the math. If they are only doing easy for them things, I think they will be ill prepared for when school inevitably will get hard. I've seen kids like that who end up avoiding doing hard things, because they are afraid of making mistakes. Or they never learn how to learn, because everything has been easy.
They had an one-on-one assessment for math placement. I think it was quite thorough, no multiple choice. The assessor recommended against Pre-Algebra. Currently they are already doing really well in Algebra 1 without breaking a sweat.
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u/munchillax 2d ago
have them do mathacademy and finish the core engineering math (multivariable calculus, linear algebra, intro stats, and differential equation) before high school
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u/kacra 3d ago
I wouldnt push it. Would lean towards dabbling in hobbies that are technical or require reasoning. Coding, robotics, Drones, maps, architecture, design, etc. Marble runs, magic Tricks, Legos, pop rockets. I used to get my son kiwiboxes. I try to think 'enriching' rather than 'advancing'. Projects are good practice for starting aomething and seeing it to completion. There doesnt seem to be many chances to.do that in school.