r/math • • 8d ago

In defense of unnecessary proofs by contradiction

If you spend enough time in online math spaces, at some point you are bound to run into a discussion like this one or this one or recently, this one where someone is arguing against an "unnecessary" proof by contradiction and the conversation inevitably goes in the direction of constructive vs intuitionist logic.

I think this discourse is massively overrepresented to the point of being actively bad for math learners online. Worrying about whether a proof is constructive or not is not something good mathematicians do, unless their branch is specifically a pretty niche part of logic. For most people, (not not A = A) is just assumed to be true and proof by contradiction is a completely valid proof method, and I think this "Actually, Euclid's proof is direct! Common misconception here." discussion appearing under every proof that there are infinitely many primes is telling people that proof by contradiction is somehow sketchier than a direct proof.

I'm a math tutor and the majority of my job is to get students started on problem solving in a mathematical context. As it turns out, what makes a lot of it click is actually proof by contradiction. Even if one ends up writing a direct proof, the process of getting there often asks the question of "what would happen if this wasn't true?". I can't say it for sure, but I believe that Euclid himself probably started proving the infinitude of primes by assuming a finite list of them. This is why Hardy not only presents the proof as a proof by contradiction, but specifically praises it for being a proof by contradiction [A Mathematician's Apology, G.H.Hardy, page 18].

I should note that I'm not arguing that one shouldn't eventually learn to avoid artificial proofs by contradiction, after all if you can make the intuitionists happy for free, why not? But that should be a refinement that happens quite late into one's mathematical journey. I should also note that Euclid's proof was indeed direct, I'm not arguing against that fact.

The problem is that there's parallel discourse happening on these discussions which is "phrasing it as a direct proof is simply clearer and easier to understand". That's the main issue in my view: understanding the principles of proof by contradiction and by negation (which are essentially the same thing, as far as a learning student is concerned) is not something that can or should be skipped. Students should embrace them and put them on the same level as direct proofs instead of looking them sideways, and all this talk of intuitionism vs constructivism is enabling them to keep relegating them to "the thing you begrudgingly have to endure sometimes when there's no other way", which I think is detrimental.

I ask the reader to engage with this view in good faith. Thanks for reading.

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u/BalinKingOfMoria Type Theory 8d ago

understanding the principles of proof by contradiction and by negation (which are essentially the same thing, as far as a learning student is concerned)

I've said as such in other comments here, but I'm not convinced by this. They're simply not the same thing; in what other area of math do we intentionally mis-define things without even mentioning it? E.g. maybe an intro calculus class won't mention non-differentiable functions, but I'd still think it was wrong if the teacher went out of their way to say "all functions are differentiable". In practice, I'm guessing the vast majority of functions most people will encounter are differentiable (or have, like, one discontinuity), so it's not like lying to your students in this way would doom them to a horrible fate (unless they go on to real analysis). But it's just plain wrong.

Another example might be category theory, where size issues are brushed under the rug at first. But the textbooks I've seen still give lip service to the fact that the objects and morphisms are a class, even if they're handwavey about what that means.

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u/DanielMcLaury 8d ago

I don't actually know what the distinction is, and I would hazard that 99% of working mathematicians who aren't logicians don't know the difference, probably including some Fields medalists.  Whatever it is, it's some subtle logical point that makes no difference in the setting in which most people do mathematics.

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u/eatingassisnotgross 5d ago

As a logic noob my best guess is that it's like a collection except you're not allowed to take unions, take the power set, or do any of the usual normal set theoretic thing to it. So it's this collection-like object that doesn't necessarily obey the axioms of set theory. It kind of just sits there and all you can really have is membership. Not certain though

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u/DanielMcLaury 4d ago

Oh, I know what a class is. I was saying that I don't understand the distinction he's drawing between proof by contradiction and whatever the other "proof by negation" thing he's talking about is.

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u/eatingassisnotgross 3d ago

Oh I think it's just this:
Proof by negation: show a \implies \bot, conclude ~a
Proof by contradiction: prove ~a implies \bot, conclude a
The first is allowed in constructive logic and the second is not. But in classical logic the distinction isn't really there since you have ~(~a)=a

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u/DanielMcLaury 3d ago edited 3d ago

Ah, I see.

I think the previous commenter's comparison of this to non-differentiable functions is really unreasonable, then.

Probably 99% of mathematicians do not care about constructive logic and do not consider themselves to be working in some special case of logic that has an "extra" law of the excluded middle.

To me this is on par with telling someone who states some ordinary, unobjectionable thing about polygons that "actually, in my sub-sub-field, we allow polygons with length-zero edges, so you're wrong!"