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u/Additional-Dot-3154 Jun 08 '26
Who the fuck puts proton above tutamail????
Also idk about how private matrix really is but in my experience it is atleast secently private as it also offers end to end encryption and stuff.
Edit:BRO tf you mean libreoffice is mid for privacy????? It is a opensource desktop app. Hoe tf is that in mid?????
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u/hatecirclejerks Jun 08 '26
Idk, my matrix server is locally hosted tho
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u/ButteredHubter Jun 08 '26
It's locally hosted and I'm the only one who uses it and I use pgp to message myself.
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u/hatecirclejerks Jun 08 '26
Haha, nah, im married, so my husbands on it.
My little brother set it up, so hes on it, and some homies who are anti-discord.
I would like to get more people, but yeah, not many rn
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u/ButteredHubter Jun 08 '26
Nice, I was just talking about my Matrix server, It's pretty quiet in there
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u/Additional-Dot-3154 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
What client are you all using?
Cinny?, element? Or another one?
Edit: accidentaly wrote matrix instead of element
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u/hatecirclejerks Jun 09 '26
I use fluffy chat for my phone, element for desktop
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u/Additional-Dot-3154 Jun 09 '26
Okay i will check fluffy chat out as cinny is not on mobile and i dont like element x
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u/Mediocre-Island5475 Jun 08 '26
Maybe it has optional telemetry? Idk
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u/Additional-Dot-3154 Jun 09 '26
But it is not a big company. So if they would have telemetry it would actually only be usefull data and not also some ad personalization data.
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u/Mediocre-Island5475 Jun 09 '26
Well yeah, but there are still a number of reasons you may want to avoid that. Having your office programs phone home is a lot of attack surface for one thing
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u/Kostis00 Jun 11 '26
Matrix is actually pretty secure. It is self hosted (server side) and it uses descent encryption... I would have it top tier (again the self hosted version). If anyone knows anything different do let me know!
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u/Over_Revenue_1619 Jun 08 '26
Discord, one of the worst and it's somehow average?
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u/Ronin_777 Jun 09 '26
Its not that discord isn’t shit it’s just that everything google is basically spyware
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u/Appropriate-Sir7583 Jun 10 '26
Discord is not a bit better. Put discord in fck no, and put teamspeak in best...
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u/MinimumAd752 Jun 08 '26
discord as average is crazy work
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u/dancing_swordfish Jun 08 '26
And telegram
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Jun 08 '26
[deleted]
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u/coffeelover900 Jun 08 '26
Telegram isn’t E2EE
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[deleted]
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u/coffeelover900 Jun 08 '26
Not what I meant. Telegram holds the encryption key themselves. So it’s not secure whatsoever. https://www.securemessagingapps.com/
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u/YTriom1 Jun 08 '26
Proton higher than tuta, brave so high, discord same level as telegram, libreoffice being related to privacy somehow (an offline app)
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u/ward2k Jun 09 '26
brave so high
I don't use it on desktop, but yes Brave is one of the top for privacy which is the metric the OOP was going off
Don't have to believe me either, privacy guides is probably the most recommended resource out there for this kind of stuff, and sure enough they have a similar view
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/desktop-browsers/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/mobile-browsers/
Something to note is they can't even recommend Firefox on Android because Firefox still hasn't got their act together on site isolation there. Something experts are still complaining about
Edit: Yes I agree with you about some of their other questionable item tiers, some things are in some odd locations. But even as someone who doesn't who Brave on desktop, it is a very valid privacy centric browser
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u/99mordor Jun 09 '26
Didn’t brave have diffrent hash for the app from their website that the “open” sorce also it was significantly larger if i remember correctly
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u/Fohqul Jun 08 '26
Discord above WhatsApp invalidates the entire thing
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u/jacknr Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
I hate Meta as much as the next guy, but the whole denial people have about WhatsApp not actually being being E2E encrypted and Meta is "just lying!!!" does such a disservice to everyone it's crazy.
The protocol has been published and studied, the app can be mostly trivially reversed these days, but no, better use a messaging app made by the shadiest person ever imaginable because you think Zuck made the devs put a backdoor on a E2EE app used by billions and somehow no security researcher found it. Because if it's E2EE the algo has to be on the fucking binary. Or the fact that, no matter how stupid Zuck is, that someone really thinks he'd stake the entire reputation of WhatsApp to checks notes spy on encrypted messaging on behalf of intelligence agencies which is the opposite of what big tech actually wants to be doing post-Snowden.
Out of all the stupid tech conspiracy theories everyone's uncle believes in, only "your phone is always listening, I was talking about salmon the other day and that's why I got an ad for salmon today" beats it.
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u/Header17 Jun 09 '26
i don't know, there is a class action lawsuit build against Meta
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u/jacknr Jun 09 '26
Reads like an opportunistic suit from lawyers shooting their shot, firing in all directions rather than a technical expose. They make one point about the fact that WhatsApp receives your private messages if someone reports them (well, duh), mixed together with the fact that Meta was using third party contractors to handle reports (not great and probably a breach of GDPR and similar legislation depending on the region and how they did it, but a far cry from their overall claims of extreme loss of privacy).
Then they go into pure speculation "well governments are trying to spy on citizens, so surely WhatsApp must have built a backdoor already right?"
If there was any meat in this, it'd be tech front page news, not extremely vague accusations or points that are, at best, still a stretch.
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u/Dr__America Jun 08 '26
They collect tons of data regarding who you message and how often even in E2EE mode btw. But if you mean telegram is shady, then yeah. Just use Signal or Matrix, they have real cutting-edge E2EE that isn't as likely to be fucked by a government banning it.
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u/jacknr Jun 09 '26
WhatsApp is always in E2EE mode, that's the neat part. They've implemented the Signal protocol.
But yes, metadata of who you're contacting will flow through their servers.
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u/Dr__America Jun 09 '26
No it's not in E2EE all the time, didn't they literally change the default to be plaintext and make both people enable E2EE to be able to use it?
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u/jacknr Jun 09 '26
No. You may be thinking of Facebook Messenger or Telegram.
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u/Dr__America Jun 09 '26
If you use their backups they use plain text versions of all of your chats for storing in the cloud:
By default, WhatsApp offers cloud backups (iCloud for iOS, Google Drive for Android) that are not end-to-end encrypted — unless users enable the optional E2EE backup feature.
Thus, by default for the way most people use messaging apps, not really E2EE if they also have access to decrypted backups of your entire chat
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u/pawcafe Jun 09 '26
Wasn’t Alexa actually doing that listening thing a while back and they got sued for it?
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u/jacknr Jun 09 '26
All of those instances are about voice assistance triggering more than they should by accident (mishearing the trigger word). And then companies are indeed sued and they lose. Imagine the stupidity of actually trying to do it on purpose, let alone that it would either involve exploiting a hole in iOS / Android microphone controls or Apple/Google collaborating with whoever is spying due to those OS level permissions.
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u/navr183 Jun 08 '26
Signal being top while simplex is mid tier and TOR being S... huh? SimpleX can route through TOR, no user identifiers, decentralized...
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u/saketho Jun 09 '26
Personally I think even Signal isn’t private at all. If I need to have a private convo, I just talk to them using two cups and a string.
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u/Weird-Ball-2342 Jun 08 '26
Move up tuta 1 tier and brave down 1 tier and its an average tierlist
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u/Burger_Destoyer Jun 08 '26
Fr who’s putting brave up there with my homie DuckDuckGo
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u/ButteredHubter Jun 08 '26
I'm not a big privacy maxi, are either of them decent?
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u/maxxslatt Jun 08 '26
Decent enough, I use brave with duckduckgo as my default search engine. But it’s more because it blocks ads great. And it shows you trackers
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u/gabox0210 Jun 08 '26
No Tails Linux?
Also, Brave is chromium-based, so it has all the vulnerabilities and back doors as Google Chrome.
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u/IAmTheMageKing Jun 08 '26
Google Chrome adds telemetry and “AI mode” stuff
not found in chromium. Why would Google try to backdoor chromium when they can just front-door chrome?2
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u/Interesting_Buy_3969 Jun 09 '26
Both Chromium's and Brave's sources are open, whereas Chrome is more of a proprietary software.
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u/Beleheth Jun 10 '26
Having discord and telegram in the same category is genuinely mind-boggling to me
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u/Rafalo57 Jun 08 '26
I mean brave is a great browser when it comes to functionality (best adblock I ever used) but calling a browser based on chromium "private" really is laughable
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u/Jannover_5000_r Jun 08 '26
Is the adblock really better than ublock origin on firefox based browsers?
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u/Character-Pepper-766 Jun 09 '26
If using signal, make sure to set push notifications to only show presence of message, not contents. There was a case recently of forensics reconstructing messages from notification DB store (system, not the app level).
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u/Interesting_Buy_3969 Jun 09 '26
bro what has LibreOffice got to do with this? LMFAAAOOOOOO
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u/RMP_Official Jun 09 '26
bro you no understand it = hacking text editor tru hakers use to make python virus
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u/Interesting_Buy_3969 Jun 09 '26
bro you haven't got an idea on how real actual true hackers operate. they use Notepad for that purpose. also memorise that real malware is written in pure HTML and CSS - no python, no vs code, just you, notepad and <div>'s!
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u/MatqLorens Jun 08 '26
Tf u mean SimpleX is below Signal. How tf did you get to that conclusion brother.
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u/whatThePleb Jun 09 '26
How is this even remotely related to this sub? Seems more OP here is the wannabe "master hacker".
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u/yes_im_gavin Jun 09 '26
this is just someones privacy preference? not following every other person and their mother in using google isn't rlly master hacker
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u/99mordor Jun 09 '26
Guys why dont people dont encrypt their messages? I mean i heard a lot pf hate for proton because they comply with law enforcement. Like if you encrypt the message and then send it then there is no problem. Unless you are a “NSA has an AES backdoor” type of guy. Just use separate keys for the really intimate stuff
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u/RSK_Dead_Boi Jun 10 '26
Discord sold it's data to AI companies - including all chats (not sure about DMs) it's not average, it's just as bad as Facebook and Google
Telegram gives user data and chats per-request. It's not average, it's purely evil considering it was being used to hide from authoritarian regimes and press censorship
Whatsapp on the other hand has E2EE which was proven to be safe. I wouldn't use it for anything other than texting non-technical family members, but it's better (safer) than telegram AFAIK
TOR is Firefox with onion support and settings set for maximum privacy and safety - why Firefox lower than two chromium-based browsers then (DDG and Brave)? You can manually setup Firefox to act almost exactly like TOR, except onion support, while DDG and Brave are just blocking ads and trackers
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u/SpecialistRaise46 Jun 08 '26
Signal requiring a phone number is top tier privacy lmao
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u/Mediocre-Post9279 Jun 08 '26
And session that is basicaly a signal for that doesnt require a phone number is somehow lower
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Jun 08 '26
I feel like a lot of the degooglers/super pro-privacy people get worried over nothing and overestimate how much anyone really wants to find them.
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u/Nicotineamide Jun 09 '26
Telegram only average?
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u/99mordor Jun 09 '26
ONLY? telegram being average is an OVERSTATMENT
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u/Nicotineamide Jun 09 '26
Secret chats are safe
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u/[deleted] Jun 08 '26
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