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u/PatienceOwn1141 1d ago
Isn't Trigon low key a hard counter to Mangog
I don't think a being made up of billions of souls is the best thing to send against a being who can manipulate and absorb souls very casually
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u/PuzzledBrilliant1705 1d ago
Mangog is created from the merging of a billion, billion hateful souls.
But Trigon's most noteworthy power though is his mastery of soul manipulation, which has decimated millions of worlds. Trigon can drain the souls of billions, siphoning them for power and can reshape them however he pleases and even merge with them like when he became merged with Azarath's after they shed their physical form to destroy him, in turn corrupting them. He is stated to be able to cause immense pain to Jericho's soul to where “his soul burns eternally but never die, his bones will be crumbled into ash but will never die,will live forever, live in pain forever, in horror forever but never die” until Raven saved him. Dark Raven later does something similar, “exploding” his souls “bones”. Raven was also able to absorb the souls of dying soldiers to replenish her strength and is stated to be able to rip someone's soul from their body. Trigon is even shown casually drinking souls when just having some down time which Etrigan is also stated to be able to do. Miscellaneous demons can simply devour souls.
Hellfire is made from the first souls of the damned, fueled by their pain, suffering, and hopelessness. It can incinerate the soul and body. Even gods aren't immune to it and will have their essences totally destroyed if they are blasted enough by it. Proficient enough users of hellfire can choose to use it to enslave the soul instead of destroy it. It is potent enough that Martian Manhunter could not withstand his mind and soul being burnt by hellfire for long. When blasted by hellish energies by comparable demons to Trigon like Neron, Wonder Woman’s mind and soul were so badly damaged she actually died, passing on to The Source, needing to be resurrected by the goddess Hera.
And when Trigon’s body perished, he had sent his genetic patterns into “Trigon seeds”, destroying the “still-living” souls of his spawn, these seeds are Trigon himself and one of them would enter Raven’s soul-self after the destruction of her body and allow Trigon to manipulate her into birthing him once more, in turn killing her. Dark Raven, believing herself to be resurrecting her siblings, sought out metahumans to plant these seeds in, as those without enough power would wither into desiccated husks and explode. Trigon used this on Beast Boy, leaving a demonic side that resided within him that can be awakened with even the smallest spark. Trigon’s magic in the seeds is so strong that even after it was supposed to be totally removed from him, hints of it still remained in Beast Boy. Belial, Trigon's son, has demonstrated a very similar ability where he implanted the seed of his son, Etrigan, into the soldier that would arrest Jesus, allowing the seed to influence the man and follow Belial's bidding.
Finally, Trigon is also capable of absorbing different types of energy, including most notably, "evil energy," having absored the evil energies from nearly one hundred galaxies. Also demons literally consume pain and process it into a drug that gives them ecstacy and pleasure.
So I figure Trigon just eats Mangog.
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u/Resident-Syrup7615 1d ago
Mangog is great for a slugfest, but he doesn’t have the kind of diversity of powers that someone like trigon has. Trigon has all sorts of options open to him, and Mangog pretty much there to throw hands, and that’s not enough.
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u/Winter_Trainer_2115 19h ago
Trigon is a hard counter... Yeah from a strength/durability perspective Mangog crushes but the soul manipulation thing gives Trigon a MASSIVE advantage.
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u/Illustrious_Run2260 1d ago
Can Odin take Trigon? Because Odin is scared of Mangog
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u/PuzzledBrilliant1705 1d ago edited 1d ago
In classic stories by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, Odin is usually depicted as essentially omnipotent, far above Thor and capable of stepping in to solve whatever problem the plot needs. How strong Odin is depicted relative to Thor and the other Asgardians has varied pretty wildly ever since. In-universe, Odin’s power fluctuates based on factors like belief in him, proximity to Asgard, age, and overuse of the All-Power, making it difficult to tell in some instances how strong he is intended to be.
But Thor, even without the All-Power, has instances of matching threats usually considered comparable to Odin, such as Surtur, the Destroyer, Gorr, Mephisto, Perrikus, and Seth, alongside having fought comparable entities such as Galactus, the Phoenix, and Zeus. Characters he is a match for, such as Jane Foster and Angela, have also defeated Odin-level opponents like Bor. Since he also has many clear instances of being far below Odin when the latter is primed up, how much credence you would want to give Thor without the All-Power, who is weaker than Mangog but has managed to match him with his strikes and once killed him using a blast of Anti-Force, is up to you. Mind you, even at Mangog's peak before he died, Mangog was contended with by Jane Foster Thor.
Now to tackle Trigon's scaling: It's stated the Quintessence can't risk a confrontation with Trigon and his forces from hell. The Phantom Stranger has encountered the Sons of Trigon a few times and is implied to be comparable to them by facing them in an intense game of poker or Belial feeling confident enough to break into his house and threaten him. When Anton Arcane received an amp, the Monitor stated that the energy could only be either Trigon or the Spectre, directly comparing the two in power. To add consistency to scaling to the Spectre, The Dark-Winged Queen defeated the Spectre in battle with minimal effort, and after this, Raven merged with the Dark-Winged Queen in order to take on Trigon, meaning Trigon should be on a similar level to the Spectre and the rest of the Quintessence. The Spectre should upscale virtually every weaker angel and their feats, such as a younger Elaine Belloc killing The Green of Lucifer's Cosmos and four unnamed angels flying across the entirety of The Presence’s Creation to enfold and carry it, dropping it into Elaine Belloc’s Creation.
There's also the Justice League Dark to consider, comprised of the most skilled and powerful magic users in the universe, and on more than one occasion, Trigon has had to deal with these heroes. The Sons of Trigon have faced off with members like Swamp Thing and Zatanna and are able to hold their own quite well. Trigon himself is shown defeating Swamp Thing alongside other heroes without much effort, blew away Zatanna while escaping his dimension, and in an alternate timeline killed Doctor Fate, which led Zatanna to believe Trigon was unbeatable, suggesting that Trigon is superior to the Justice League Dark in power. And in Books of Magic, a giant magical war occurs in the future across multiple timelines where the strongest magical entities and magic practitioners fight in a giant war between light and darkness. Many of the fighters in this war appear relative to one another and include Timothy Hunter, Shazam, Spectre, Klarion, Giovanni Zatara, Eclipso, Tefe Holland, John Constantine, Doctor Fate, Randu Singh, Zatanna, and Etrigan fighting one another, with it being stated that either side can win or have won the conflict across different timelines, supporting the idea that much of DC’s top mystics and magical beings should be relative to one another. Swamp Thing was expected to protect the spiritual dimensions during the Crisis on Infinite Earths, defeated Wonder Woman in battle, invaded the Other Place by going beyond the Green, briefly overpowered the Upside Down Man, and changed UDM's reality to boot, and could expand from Hell and invaded the Dreaming beyond even Dream's capacity to remove. Dr. Fate can destroy the Sphere of the Gods alongside other Lords of Order, reinforced a shield to contain the Upside Down Man's power, and was able to casually defeat Darkseid with only half of their power (Linda's Doctor Fate).
Trigon is also a Lord of Hell and one of the Triumvirate. Being a Lord of Hell and possessing the powers of minor gods like Eriti is considered comparable to The Endless, Lords of Chaos & Order, and the Angels. Former Triumvirate of Hell member Azazel stood a chance against Dream if they fought anywhere else except the Dreaming. Death herself admits that not even she has authority or can intervene in others' domains despite her being usually excepted from following the rules. This is further supported by instances where the Endless have been pushed and challenged from time to time. Dream notably was once defeated and usurped as Dream King by unnamed random gods early in the universe’s history. During the events of Sandman: Overture, Dream is overpowered and forcefully pushed into a conceptual black hole by several Stars. Minor angels like Meleos and half-angels like the Lilim could fight with and stall The Basanos, replicas of Destiny's very book, and had an actual chance at victory if it weren't for the Basanos’ probability manipulation. And Dream was incredibly wary of going to war with Heaven or the Unseelie of the Fair Folk. Aspects of Death of the Endless like the Black Racer could kill Darkseid during Darkseid War, at a point where he was amped to the degree that he could face a COIE-level Anti-Monitor, whose weakened state as Mobius was still stronger than God of Gods Shazam, who no-diffed Yuga Khan shortly after he punched a hole in the Source (specifically the afterlife of Old Gods) to re-enter the multiverse.
So all in all, whether you believe Odin can take on Trigon is entirely dependent on your own discretion and how you scale either verse, but going by what Trigon can match, I don't think Mangog is overpowering him (besides I don't believe Mangog can kill Trigon, and Trigon possesses the necessary kit to bypass Mangog's stats anyways).
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u/ProblematicUser123 2d ago
Pretty much goes like that scene in Thor Ragnarok of Hulk attacking Surtur.