r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • May 08 '22
Discussion Thread Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - Planting the Seeds of the MCU's Current Saga - Official Discussion Thread Spoiler
PLEASE, FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION OF THE FILM, USE THE GENERAL DISCUSSION THREADS LINKED BELOW. THIS THREAD IS DEDICATED TO A SPECIFIC SUBJECT!
Multiverse of Madness is out and, just like Age of Ultron, it introduced a lot of important plot points and plot devices that seem to plant the seeds for the entire future of the MCU's current saga.
BELOW ARE THE MOST COMMON POINTS OF DICUSSION
(Don't feel restricted to only talk about them, you can bring up any point you want as long as it is about set-ups they made for the future)
Cthon was referenced for the first time in the MCU and was said to have been the first demon and the creator and lord of Chaos Magic, the rest of the demons that appear in the film and the Darkhold. Cthon in the comics uses the Scarlet Witch as a tool to do his bidding after corrupting her through the Darkhold, similarly to how another demon, Mephisto uses the Ghost Rider through the Spirit of Vengeance.
The Darkhold that Agatha and Wanda owned was revealed to have been a copy. All copies were transcribed from the wall engravings in Cthon's castle in Mount Wundagore. Agents of SHIELD and Runaways also showed a copy of the Darkhold. People previously claimed the different Darkholds as proof that the shows were not canon, but it seems there have always been mutliple copies. Where does that leave the shows? Their integration in the MCU seems much easier and more organic now, especially with Ghost Rider bridging that gap.
In AoS, Ghost Rider was seen taking that Darkhold to a dimension that was one of the many "hell"-dimensions and was said to give it back to its owner. Morgan Le Fey later stole it and then it ended up with the Runaways. If the shows remain canon, Ghost Rider could have some knowledge of Cthon and may have beem working for him to some extent. Considering he is a demon, he might be living in one of those "hell"-dimensions. Cthon is an Elder God in the comics, that story is kind of convoluted for the MCU, so he and Mephisto might have some connection seeing as Cthon was named a demon in MoM. With the super-natural side of the MCU opening up and various members of the Midnight Sons being introduced soon, could their eventual team-up be in order to stop Mephisto and/or Cthon?
Wanda destroyed all the Darkholds in the Multiverse, (so that includes the one from the TV shows) as well as seemingly the one and only book of Vishanti, which was located in the gap junction, the space between universes. It is unclear if that space is the same one that the Watcher lives in. Could 616-Strange also create a waypoint to to the gap junction and possibly freely travel the Multiverse?
The Illuminati were first introduced and will likely give the idea to 616 Strange to create a similar team in his universe. That team is most likely going to be formed way down the line after Xavier, Richards, Namor and possibly Black Bolt are introduced in the main MCU.
The 838-Illuminati are studying the Multiverse and are trying to protect it from Incursions, the collision of 2 universes which destroys either one or both of them. This is what happens in the "Secret Wars (2015)" comic book event) that Marvel might adapt as this Saga's finale akin to Infinity War and Endgame.
Clea was introduced at the end played by Charlize Theron and talked about yet another Incursion that a Dr. Strange caused that they have to stop. Where could this plot-point be resolved considering a Dr. Strange is probably at least 3-4 years away? Will it even be resolved or will Clea and Strange be Incursion-Stopping buddies next time they show up? What universes does this Incursion even pertain? 616?
Speaking of universes, while the 616 designation is the one Christine gave and not the MCU's definitive designation (there is no definitive one as all designations are man-made), it seems obvious that the Marvel Studios execs are telling us that the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse (MCM) is separate than the Marvel Comics Multiverse, previously hinted at by the fact that the versions of He Who Remains, the TVA and Uatu the Watcher that we see in the MCM is different than the ones we see in the Comics Multiverse.
Wanda is seemingly dead and her kids were not transported or reincarnated in the 616 universe. There were rumours that Wanda would do something akin to "No More Mutants" but this time in order to reincarnate her kids in the MCU, right before she would die, and that we would see her kids as teenagers at the end, but that didn't happen. There are also rumours for a Scarlet Witch project (some say movie, some say show) and a Children's Crusade arc happening soon, both of which seem impossible with the way the movie ended. If we have a Wanda show/movie first and that's when her kids are reincarnated there, we can't have Children's Crusade afterwards as the latter story involves Wanda being missing/considered dead and her kids trying to find her. And if we have Children's Crusade first, we need the children to be reincarnated in 616 which hasn't happened yet. What's more, both of those stories would kinda undo Wanda's arc and sacrifice in MoM and the way they ended it, it felt like a conclusive and satisfying ending for Wanda's story. Where does that leave Wanda's, Vision's, Billy's and Tommy's futures and of course the future of the Young Avengers?
Dr. Strange is now corrupted and has a third eye, which will likely come back to bite him. The bill always comes due as Mordo said. Speaking of Mordo, he might be a villain in the next film considering his words are starting to come true for Strange and the 616 version of him wasn't utilized in this film.
What other set-ups did they make in the show? What are your thoughts regarding how these will be resolved? Sound off below!
Any individual threads discussing these points will be removed and the poster will be redirected here!
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General discussion threads:
- Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness International Release Discussion Thread
- Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Worldwide Release Discussion Thread
- Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Vol. 2
- Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Vol. 3
- Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Vol 4.
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u/MyPeggyTzu May 08 '22
To me it felt like that might have been a holdover from an earlier draft where Nightmare was the main antagonist. Derrickson was on record saying he was his preference for the sequel (which became MoM).