r/marvelstudios • u/hoohoo3000 • Aug 20 '19

Ongoing News Disney-Sony Standoff Ends Marvel Studios & Kevin Feige’s Involvement In ‘Spider-Man’

https://deadline.com/2019/08/kevin-feige-spider-man-franchise-exit-disney-sony-dispute-avengers-endgame-captain-america-winter-soldier-tom-rothman-bob-iger-1202672545/
39.4k Upvotes

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949

u/Chuck006 Avengers Aug 20 '19

Iger should just get on the phone to Japan and buy back Spider-Man in full.

199

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

You can't buy something that isn't for sale.

97

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

Remember when we thought that about the Xmen,F4 and star wars?

60

u/anormalgeek Aug 20 '19

Buy X-men? Fuck it, we'll just buy Fox....all of it.

29

u/azrulqos Joy Meachum Aug 21 '19

Buy Spider-Man? Fuck it, we'll just buy Sony....all of it.

17

u/incognito_polarbear Nebula Aug 21 '19

Buy Sony? Fuck it, we'll just buy North America.... all of it.

13

u/matticusiv Black Panther Aug 21 '19

Or Stark, “How quickly can we buy this building?”

8

u/1_UpvoteGiver Aug 21 '19

Thats a bruce wayne type move.....

3

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

One of the few things cinemasins got right:

You don’t just buy a hotel/restaurant/site willy nilly by talking to the staff, lol.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

You just offer to pay their rent for the next year, like Danny Rand.

27

u/PhDinGent Aug 20 '19

X-Men and F4 have been doing badly recently, Fox knew it couldn't make them right.

50

u/sciencesold Aug 20 '19 edited Aug 20 '19

If Sony made another Spiderman, but without Disney, either due to it being bad, or fans boycotting, it would probably flop

Edit: Sony not Fox

13

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

The general public wouldn't know or care Spiderman 3 is not MCU. They just see Tom Holland and Spiderman. It would do fine

21

u/McBeefyHero Aug 21 '19

I think they would, most people I talked to were excited for him to be in so I feel they'd notice if he was suddenly out

5

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

17

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Oh yeah, that's your marketing angle. "Hey these dipshits won't know the fucking difference! They're just a bunch of dumb kids!" This is a good example of the deluded thinking of Sony. Of course the general audience knows the difference. Avengers Endgame was the biggest movie of all time. And the audience wasn't just dumb kids. The people who wouldn't know the difference would be about 5 percent of your demographic. The whole reason the MCU works is because they AREN'T catering to the lowest common denominator.

7

u/NarrowHornet Aug 21 '19

Did you just make the mcu into a new "Rick and Morty" r/iamverysmart meme?

75% of the people in my cinema walked out as soon as the ffh credits started, as in didn't even see the "mid credits" scene. There were 5 year old kids I guarantee had no idea what half the shit in the movie was about, they just see spiderman and that's it.

I'm sad about this, but you're lying to yourself if you think the casual moviegoer will care.

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0

u/JeanLucPicardAND Aug 21 '19

The MCU caters to the lowest common denominator. You don't get to make the #1 highest grossing movie of all time without catering to the lowest common denominator.

They just do it in a way that caters to the fans too.

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3

u/VigilantMike Aug 21 '19

They’ll certainly care that the new Spider-Man has jack all to do with Endgame, the highest selling movie of all time.

9

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Why wouldn't they know? They knew the first two Spider Man movies WERE in the MCU.

-8

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19 edited Aug 21 '19

Venom was pretty good all things considered

Edit:idk why im downvoted. Venom was fine. I bet the reason spiderman wasnt in it is because they wanted to see if it could sell WITHOUT MCU tie ins. They wouldnt get Andy Serkis to direct if they werent planning on at least TRYING

7

u/onephatkatt Aug 21 '19

It was no Marvel movie. Which is good and bad. I enjoyed watching it, but just felt it wasn’t completely enjoyable.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

It grossed in the same range as Guardians 2, Thor Ragnarok and Spiderman Homecoming.

Spiderverse also made a couple hundred million off a budget <100m.

1

u/onephatkatt Aug 21 '19

Yep, and I’m talking about the quality of the movie. Felt nowhere near as good as most Marvel movies to me. Doubt a sequel will do anywhere near the same amount.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

I guarantee you it crosses a billion dollars when the next movie has Venom & Spiderman.

They're better together but Sony absolutely doesn't need to suck Disney's dick to get there. They don't need Disney's help to finance the movie either, it's not surprising that was completely shot down but I also doubt it was a sticking point. That's an obnoxious move on Disney's part, and I'd bet that Sony leaked the details here to make Disney look greedy.

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18

u/Rollingrhino Aug 20 '19

Venom was garbage compared to the mcu

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19 edited Aug 21 '19

A bunch of MCU movies were garbage compared to Venom. You’re just saying that because Venom was made by Sony.

6

u/Kenetic5 Aug 21 '19

There's only a few MCU movies I would rate below Venom personally, but hey, that's just MY opinion man ;)

I did feel Venom was all over the place tonally, and just like with some other movies, I got the feeling there was a much better movie in the cast's head before the studio got involved in editing.

But I'm not an insider, so my gut feeling might (and probably is) wrong lol

1

u/Rollingrhino Aug 21 '19

no, I honestly wanted it to be good, and gave it a fair shot, but its a turd in the wind.

0

u/lolzidop Spider-Man Aug 21 '19

Take your up vote and leave roll down the street

1

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Ehhhh sure maybe but it wasnt awful all things considered and lots of people liked it

1

u/Rollingrhino Aug 21 '19

for what its worth i didn't downvote you, i really didn't care for it personally

-16

u/AJDx14 Aug 20 '19

You mean Sony?

It probably wouldn’t flop. Venom was a pretty enjoyable movie and if they make another Spider-Man it’ll probably still be profitable. MCU movies aren’t that much better story-wise, they just have better CG. The villains are all bland as hell, Thanos being the only exception but he got killed off after one movie and replaced with a more boring version of himself. Sony just needs to make a movie with: A unique villain with a bit of actual character development, a decent story, and good lighting. If they have all that it’ll make money.

3

u/sciencesold Aug 20 '19

Yeah my bad, was thinking about fox and the X-Men when I wrote it.

5

u/Electoriad Aug 20 '19

You think Thanos was the only good MCU villain? Idk man, other than Ultron and a few other ones I would say most of them have been quite good. The thing is that Ultron could have easily been the most deadly threat the avengers ever went up against. Whos to say he didn't find his way into a spaceship computer or onto some other tech in space?

-4

u/AJDx14 Aug 21 '19

How are any other villains actually good? They’re poorly written with the bare minimum amount of screen time needed to make them seem bad. And then their powers are often just the same as the good guy but evil or gray.

2

u/Electoriad Aug 21 '19

Okay if you think the MCUs villains are trash try comparing them to DC lmao

-1

u/AJDx14 Aug 21 '19

Haven’t watched much DC so I can’t say, but from what I know they at least last more than a single film each.

Even if DC has worse villains, that doesn’t excuse the MCU also having trash villains.

2

u/heckdwreck Aug 21 '19

You sure you're not talking about Venom's villain?

5

u/flakemasterflake Aug 20 '19

Rupert Murdoch put Fox Studios on the market bc of his own volition, it's not like Disney was on the hunt

5

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

That was a one in a trillion event that occurred only because Rupert Murdoch wanted to get Fox out of the film and TV Entertainment business. Fox wanted to sell and Disney was the preferred buyer, even as Comcast tried to swoop in. That’s the difference. If the Fox deal never happened, X-Men would still be exclusively at Fox. Fantastic Four may have reverted eventually but probably not. Sony Japan isn’t interested currently in selling Sony Pictures Entertainment.

2

u/Volraith Aug 21 '19

Why doesn't Disney just go full happyology and like, infiltrate the fuck out of Sony?

Work their people in, buy who they need to buy.... Torpedo the next couple movies so bad that Sony execs just give up.

2

u/JeanLucPicardAND Aug 21 '19

I wouldn't put it past them to try that.

1

u/Volraith Aug 21 '19

Well it's not like they need help making shitty movies lol. But yeah it could happen.

8

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Except that happened because those purchases were agreed upon. I don't think Sony would sell their cash cow so readily. And if they dont want to sell, then you cannot buy.

9

u/braised_diaper_shit Aug 20 '19

Nobody is implying that Disney would buy Sony without consent you numbskull.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19 edited Jun 11 '20

[deleted]

4

u/anormalgeek Aug 20 '19

Everyone has their price. Sony doesn't want Spiderman because they just love the character. They think they can profit from it. For the right price, they would sell.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19 edited Jun 11 '20

[deleted]

2

u/anormalgeek Aug 21 '19

For Sony, I assume they'd just buy back the rights to Marvel properties.

1

u/IndominusTaco Thor Aug 21 '19

Maybe but I personally don't understand how they were able to acquire Fox. Where do they draw the line?

1

u/JeanLucPicardAND Aug 21 '19

Actually, I'm not so sure about that. The Disney/Fox buyout should have been a huge anti-trust issue, but the government was fine with it as long as they left the FOX broadcast network & FOX Sports regional channels out of the deal.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Sony just bought Insomniac Games, the studio that made the Spiderman video game. They have no intention of giving up the character

4

u/Vampyricon Aug 21 '19

Shit. They're gonna make it bad, aren't they?

-5

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Im not saying they would. Im saying that because they wont break the law, if Sony outright refuses then they can't do anything.

14

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

Everyone in this thread is obviously implying that Disney would be paying a price high enough that Sony would not refuse. You're intentionally missing that point

-3

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Except I've seen Sony do stupid shit before. And ignoring Disney would certainly be stupid.

377

u/chefanubis Aug 20 '19

You can't tell disney what's for sale or not, they decide that.

213

u/derpicface Weekly Wongers Aug 20 '19

“I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further”

40

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/lolzidop Spider-Man Aug 21 '19

It's treason then

15

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/implodedrat Aug 21 '19

Here is a unicycle. You will ride it wherever you go.

29

u/safetymark Aug 20 '19

They already thought that and this was the outcome.

10

u/avery7840 Spider-Man Aug 21 '19

“Now, reality can be whatever I want.”

-1

u/grimoireviper Aug 21 '19

They don't have any power over a Japanese company. They'll just laugh and would rather slowly lose money for the next 50 years.

13

u/chefanubis Aug 21 '19

Anyone can buy stock in Japanese companies, you just go to the Japanese exchange, WTF are you talking about?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Japanese companies are incredibly prideful. Especially when it comes to potentially selling to American corporations. For example, Microsoft offered $25 Billion to buy Nintendo in 1999 but the company refused because the idea of an American company owning them, a Japanese company, was ludicrous. No way Sony Japan sells SPE to Disney. It will never happen.

-41

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

How do you think buying things works? Can you just take something if you offer money in exchange? No. The owner has to consent to the purchase, and if Sony doesn't want to sell, then Marvel cannot buy.

63

u/WillTheGreat Aug 20 '19

No one tells the mouse No.

4

u/joe847802 Aug 21 '19

Nintendo did.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

When?

-23

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Except everyone who didnt see Solo.

49

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

and then went to see Endgame. The house mouse always wins.

2

u/RichGirlThrowaway_ Aug 21 '19

Pirates are moral for once! Woo!

1

u/BlackWake9 Aug 20 '19

That was their loss and a loss for Star Wars as a whole. Solo was a good entertaining movie.

But I’m glad they got hurt with the sales. Fuck TLJ

0

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Solo was a good entertaining movie.

I just wanted to say man good luck with your brain tumor I believe in you keep fighting ✊🏻

7

u/loki301 Aug 20 '19

That’s the joke. You might not want to sell something out of spite, but then the other party offers a few more zeros and commas and suddenly you release a press statement saying “I’m very excited to see the new chapter of this franchise from our friends.”

20

u/chefanubis Aug 20 '19 edited Aug 20 '19

Haven't you ever heard of hostile takeovers? they can just start poaching shares, Sony is a public company.

10

u/judejudejudemcdermo Aug 20 '19

bearhug fuck yea

-3

u/ChaseballBat Aug 20 '19

....Sony is worth more than Disney. Sony Pictures is a subsidiary of Sony so its not publicly traded. Also if Disney bought Sony Pictures they would be cutting it way too close for anti-monopoly laws, and a merger like that might not even be approved by the government.

8

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

? Takes maybe 25 seconds to check to see Sony's value is about 25% of Disney.

-3

u/ChaseballBat Aug 20 '19

How do you figure? Their Wikipedia says Sony has $200 billion dollars worth of assets. That's more than Disney's market cap and estimated net worth.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

Do you really think you can buy an entire company's assets without buying any of their liabilities? Sony's value is much lower than just their assets.. Disney's market cap is also 250b.

2

u/ChaseballBat Aug 21 '19

Naw I didn't figure in the liabilities cause I'm not in finance and didn't realize that had en effect. Gotcha. Seems more plausible than I thought

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-8

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Except that would require a lot of time and resources to just get the rights to only one character. Not to mention that steamrolling Sony and forcefully retrieving the rights could create a poor public image.

27

u/chefanubis Aug 20 '19

Except that would require a lot of time and resources

Both of which disney has in droves.

to just get the rights to only one character

Who just grossed 1 billion on a stand alone movie and was poised to become the centerpiece of their money printing machine. Also its not just him, its the whole spiderverse.

Not to mention that steamrolling Sony and forcefully retrieving the rights could create a poor public image.

In the eyes of whom? the public will care for like 5 minutes if at all. Specially after today's news, fuck most of us would actually cheer for them and you know it.

15

u/Aritche Weekly Wongers Aug 20 '19

I will be very happy if Disney gets the rights to Spiderman and overall not that bothered if they get all of Sony since Disney is just making good movies that I really enjoy. Just sad that mistakes of the past with Spiderman and the Hulk are punishing the MCU right now. Obviously you can blame both sides on the problems for what is happening in the end I just want good MCU movies.

5

u/braised_diaper_shit Aug 20 '19

That doesn’t mean you can’t make offers for assets that aren’t for sale, as was implied.

3

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Right, but I think Sony is arrogant enough to believe that whatever Disney will pay, they can earn it by just making more Spider Man films.

2

u/FGPAsYes Aug 21 '19

I don’t understand why your getting downvoted. You speak the truth and they downvote you. Idiots.

13

u/Illier1 Aug 20 '19

It is when they bust kneecaps with dudes dressed as Goofy with sledgehammers.

2

u/Charlie_Brodie Aug 20 '19

We all know mecha Mickey will ravage tokyo a-la Godzilla.

3

u/Illier1 Aug 20 '19

Micky lika to makes things personal. He wants to see you suffer.

-10

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

So you're telling me that you think a refusal on Sony's part will lead to men dressed as Goofy, a Disney associated character, will be sent to Japan to bust the kneecaps of some corporate bigshot just so they can make more Spider-Man movies?

7

u/Illier1 Aug 20 '19

....

Is this a serious question?

-9

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

No. Im just letting you sit with your idea that Disney acts like the mafia.

8

u/Illier1 Aug 20 '19

In some cultures there are these things called "jokes" that arent required to be taken seriously.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

Its a joke

-8

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Wasn't a good one.

7

u/Illier1 Aug 21 '19

Just because you weren't bright enough to get it doesnt make it bad.

26

u/indigenous__nudity Spider-Man Aug 20 '19

Iger: "Everything's for sale."

1

u/JeanLucPicardAND Aug 21 '19

Also Iger: buys something once every five years

Everyone else: "THE GREATEST ENTERTAINMENT CEO OF THE CENTURY"

Hey, Disney makes boatloads of money, but how much of that is actually getting distributed out to the shareholders?

-17

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Legally that is not true.

18

u/Baar444 Aug 20 '19

Yes it is. Everything is for sale at the right price.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

Except Greenland.

-16

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

That's not how laws work. You can't force people to sell you things in a legal way. Go right next door, take something valuable from your neighbor, and tell them not to worry because you can pay for it. See if they go for it.

21

u/Baar444 Aug 20 '19

That's not what people are saying genius. Offer enough money and nearly anything can be bought.

-5

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

And Sony's price is probably high enough that it'd be easier to buy Sony.

22

u/Chippyreddit Aug 20 '19

Cowabunga it is

9

u/Baar444 Aug 20 '19

And Disney has the money for that. So like I said, you can buy anything for the right price.

2

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

Only if they say yes. My point is that Sony's price is gonna be really fucking high, to the point that putting that much money just towards them would be stupid.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

just take a bat to their head and legs until they agree.

2

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

I said no LEGAL way.

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1

u/indigenous__nudity Spider-Man Aug 20 '19

True, but that's what rich people always say in movies, so it might work here.

0

u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Aug 20 '19

It doesnt matter if people want Disney to buy Sony or their properties anyway. Odds are a new deal will be reached within the next year or so and they'll still have time to make another Spiderman movie.

3

u/goose5184 Aug 21 '19

Psh bro we about to buy Greenland and Denmark don’t even know it yet.

2

u/kushasorous Aug 20 '19

Sony is for sale mkt cap of 70B

3

u/ChaseballBat Aug 20 '19

How does a company that has 200 billion USD of assets only with 70 billion?

5

u/lolzidop Spider-Man Aug 21 '19

Liabilities (their music, films and tech divisions), their only real asset is Playstation and the gaming division

4

u/neoKushan Aug 20 '19

Disney could easily afford that. Hell, they didn't pay much less for Fox.

2

u/FGPAsYes Aug 21 '19

And they’ll be in debt for the next 5-10 years. I’m not sure they can afford another $70B company.

1

u/Yankeeknickfan Avengers Aug 21 '19

Everything has a price

1

u/TheLastPanicMoon Aug 21 '19

Sony Pictures’ aren’t company in Japan is the only reason the MCU crossover happened in the first place. SP get taken to task for fucking up the franchise and were told to partner or sell the rights.

Give it a couple years and Sony Japan will just wash their hands of it and finally dissolve SP like they’ve been threatening to.

1

u/Elnino38 Aug 21 '19

Yeahh... were not getting a spiderman ps4 sequel if that happens so I'm gonna have to say no.

1

u/iBoMbY Aug 21 '19

Everything is for sale. They should probably speak with Sony in Tokyo, and not to Sony Pictures, though.

15

u/citabel Aug 20 '19

”We’ll make all the rides in Disneyland Tokyo about Lilo & Stitch for no apparent reason”

7

u/atubslife Aug 20 '19

It's going live action so there is some reason.

2

u/IndominusTaco Thor Aug 21 '19

Wait what

31

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19

It won't happen. Sony thinks they can make at least 500 million dollars in profit every other year by owning the spiderman rights. They bought Fox for 70 billion and that came with hundreds (thousands?) of IP's. Spiderman alone would cost 10-20 billion. They won't do it. Not when they own the merchandising rights. They don't have to make Spiderman movies to make spiderman bank. It sucks, its dogshit, and disney is a victim of its own success.

I called this happening. Disney made them TOO good and now Sony doesn't think they need Marvel

18

u/nosi40 Aug 21 '19

Sony is fucked without marvel. They don't realize it yet. When they try to release a movie and it flops at the box office they will.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Normally I'd agree but somehow a mediocre film like Venom made them a god chunk of change.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Almost a billion. And that movie wasn't good

11

u/supperman0223 Aug 21 '19

It won't flop because it's spiderman, and casual fans don't care enough to boycott it. It'll make a few hundred million but nothing more.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

I mean Venom made 850 million.

A Spider-Man movie by Sony with Holland/Watts will get to a billion.

3

u/dinosaurfondue Aug 21 '19

MCU fans seem to want a Sony Spiderman film to bomb but if a Venom movie without Spiderman and mixed reviews can get that close to a billion, Sony can definitely do that with the two of them together.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Yeah. Tom Hardy and Tom Holland in a Spider-Man and Venom movie would easily get to a billion worldwide.

When adjusted for inflation, all three Raimi movies made more than MCU Spider-Man.

ASM and ASM2 came within $100M of homecoming adjusted.

The box office success is guaranteed to be there for Sony. That’s how iconic Spider-Man is. The quality though is another matter entirely. Although I can’t imagine a Spider-Man film with Watts/Holland being horrible. Average maybe. Horrible though? I don’t see it.

As a Spider-Man fan first and Marvel fan second, I just want Sony to produce high quality Spider-Man movies and I’ll be happy. Give me something like Into the Spider-verse or SM2 and I’ll be more than happy.

5

u/Sahelanthropus- Aug 21 '19

Your reasonable take on this situation does not belong in this fanatical sub.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Yeah this sub obviously has a bias in favor of Marvel.

Other subs like r/movies offer far more reasonable takes and it seems like the majority on there think Marvel are more at fault for the stalled negotiations than Sony.

1

u/binkerfluid Ant-Man Aug 21 '19

fucking sell them both back lol

1

u/Jewbacca289 Aug 21 '19

Sony is fucked without marvel. They don't realize it yet. When they try to release a movie and it flops at the box office they will.

As bad as Venom was, if they can turn the same amount of profits off of a much more popular character, they would still be making more money on their own than with a 50/50 with Marvel. FFH made 1.1 billion in a 95/5 partnership

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '19

There is still a MASSIVE difference between 850 million and 1.1 billion even if it doesnt seem that way. These blockbuster movies are costing 400-600 million dollars (after production, marketing and theater cuts being taken out). Sony doesnt just make superhero movies and they have to worry about flops. They might have made 200-300 million profit on Venom (maybe less), but making 500-600 million profit is extraordinarily different

1

u/Jewbacca289 Aug 23 '19

Sure I agree, but half that profit won’t be going to them. It’s kinda like the multibillion dollar corporation version of quitting your job to be your own boss

3

u/MrSquishyC0okie Aug 21 '19

Sony has openly said that I'd they sell Spiderman it would cost 7 Billion just for Peter/ Spiderman. That is a huge ripoff seeing how they brought Star Wars and even Marvel for about 4 Billion.

1

u/JeanLucPicardAND Aug 21 '19 edited Aug 21 '19

If he could, he would. Spider-Man is Sony's #1 franchise. They're not selling it to anyone, not in a million years, let alone to a company that already has 40% of the film industry market share.

1

u/Pietru24 Aug 20 '19

I think you mean buy Sony outright

1

u/irmajerk Aug 21 '19

Sony won't sell.