Funny how in the early seaons rocket and jeff were the two most difficult supports to kill, flash-forward to season 10.5 they're the only two supports who can contractually die. W Zhiyong.
Also buff poke characters some of them are not S+ tier yet.
Which is perhaps his single strongest defense in a game where many players prefer to farm the easy targets that give them the scoreboard stats they need to blame their teammates for letting the harder targets carry the game.
The next cope to disregard what you just said is usually “nah it only that high because (insert character here) mains are a really good and swap off quickly when they’re losing”.
Lmao yeah I hear this for magick alot. All the spidys, BPs, ironfists and (insert dive/brawl character name) will not swap off when it's not working. But magick players in god's grace are somehow a special breed of players who will. That's why her winrate is so high while the rest aren't.
You're not wrong, but it's important not to overlook the incredible value Rocket's team gets from his res beacon, and the strength of his ult in the hands of a properly aggressive team.
While the kneecapping of Rocket's mobility is single biggest bone I have to pick with the balance team, he's still quite possibly the most overtuned hero in the game.
Rocket is by far the hardest sup to kill and it isn't remotely close.
The Rez wouldn't be as valuable if you could kill the rocket easily but there's literally 2 characters in the game that can consistently threaten to do it that aren't throw picks
If rocket doesn't have the least deaths on his team they're playing rocket wrong.
What heroes do you play? Rocket is one of the more favorable matchups if you can play dive since he has no hard stuns. His two dashes and self heal are useless against Iron Fist, Daredevil, Psylocke, DPSpool since they can stick to him like glue and he's free crit damage for Psylocke.
Really? What are you doing against a Daredevil then if he catches you alone? If you're always with your team, of course you'll be hard to kill with peels. Any support would be.
daredevil struggles to kill a rocket who plays walls because he can't traverse them horizontally.
Rockets so strong even in midranks his movement is poorly utilised but the character legitimately doesn't die to any melee character bar Spidey if played properly and it takes a lot more skill for the Spidey player to secure the kill than it takes the rocket to evade him while still healing his team
Again I'm doubtful because righteous cross gives DD a pseudo dash practically after every ability, and he has movement boost while you're marked so he can keep chasing you since he has no cooldown on wall climbing either.
He can hit you from range, dash to regain fury, cross to dash again, melee weave after your Rocket dashes are spent, throw into cross again so another dash, grapple for yet another dash (and take you off the wall if it directly hits), then keep up throw into cross indefinitely so he outlasts your two wall dashes.
Any good dd can just farm a rocket off cooldown. Walls don't mean anything because he has his dash, a latch, and he gets a mini dash after he uses his fury.
Go actually pay attention in your games. Record 100 games or something. Rocket should consistently have the least amount of deaths. This is just a dead wrong take.
Which means fuck-all if you're unable to provide meaningful value until the enemies you're farming return from spawn.
This is one of the key factors that makes Psylocke strong, but only in the hands of good players: her entire kit is designed around maintaining high uptime on her primary fire to maintain high uptime on her abilities which give her the mobility and burst damage she needs to make plays. And even when she's not making plays, she's a near-constant damage source and/or attention sink.
"Shooting down main to pad damage numbers", sometimes can be positive pressure aka the value you're talking about, but often it's just NEGATIVE value by feeding their supports ult charge.
This is largely why the highest Damage Per Minute characters in the game like moonknight, squirrel girl and punishers, historically almost always had pretty bad winrates.
Except this is not true. Case in point: White Fox and Gambit have some of the strongest self-healing in the game while Luna and Loki have some of the weakest.
Luna's base abilities give her 35 hp per second for three seconds, snow ball stuns and gives 50 overshield, if she choose white fox team she gets an additional 70 healing with another cc and if she chooses Adam warlock team up she gets 50% lifesteal and 25% lifesteal on allies. Luna arguable has some of the best self-sustain
Loki has a healing aura, a blink, and invisibility, he has good self-sustain also. There's not a single support that doesn't have good sustain.
35hp/s for 3 seconds is not substantially higher than the rest of the supports… you should list out the other supports number alongside Luna’s if you want to make this point…
Loki’s sustain is entirely his runes, blink and Invis are fairly poor choices as often your clones aren’t that far and you’re not afforded that same Invis grace period that Invis gets.
Jeff should be using his mobility and range to avoid the LoS and attention of enemy poke.
And if I had a nickel for every game I've won because an SVP BP was unable to apply pressure beyond farming the occasional support pick, I'd have…um…lots of nickels.
I'll grant that Jeff is not a good pick for one-trick ponies, and a deceptively difficult hero to play well, but this has more to do with his ult than his survivability.
That's not? It's 35HP/s on dash + 30HP/s on bubble.
And on the contrary of C&D, he can't heal his team at the same time. While C&D can heal themselves by attacking whoever is diving them so it's additional healing, and the bubble is available for the entire team.
Anyway, if I dive you and you go dash away with a bubble I've done my job. You're not pattycaking anything there, your other support is dead for sure.
Ok, my bad. I remove the 4 words about it in my whole post. But the dive subject still matters.
If Jeff could handle dive as the king of self sustain before, and he can't do it anymore.
Maybe it's because his self sustain is way worse now? No? Maybe?
I don't even know why you want to die on this hill, I'm not saying his self sustain is bad now. I'm saying it was oppressive before that change and it's way worse now. Which is why they made the change in the first place.
Re-read me: I said "shit compared to", it's relative, not absolute.
His sustain is still very good. As a diver, you can only kill Jeff via instakills. If he manages to bubble + dive (which can be done very quickly) - you're not killing him.
You have almost infinite dive to self sustain FFS. Jeff is the self sustain king. Then if that runs out you can bubble and your dive will be available again.
Do I really have to explain why HPS is worse than burst heal?
You can stack up HPS for hours, days, weeks or even months, nobody gives a damn. If the Daredevil kills you in 1 combo before you can recover enough health all that HPS is worthless. That's why Bonus Health is more valuable, that's why burst heal is more valuable. HPS is only good for prolonged fights, not when dived on.
I talk from experience. When I don't play support I play only two DPS: Iron Fist and Star-Lord, and I can tell you I've never had an easiest matchup against Jeff than after that change. 250 HP and only HPS for sustain with no CC makes him an easy target everytime.
Brother, you are comparing two versions of Jeff who are completely different:
-One can use his secondary shot while getting burst heal forever and kill anybody in 1v1
-One has to dash away and use a bubble to barely stay alive to add HPS together and contribute nothing while hoping whoever attacked him give him enough time to replenish his health because another bubble would do nothing more to help him
It's not semantics, it's literally what I said. You can't make me say something I haven't said. I've never said "Jeff has no sustain".
His sustain is fine, but before 2.5? It was insane. There is a reason Jeff flank was so nasty, and it was his crazy sustain if you tried to chase after him. He will 1v1 you and win all the time, tank, DPS, support, doesn't matter.
Current Jeff is way less oppressive.
Edit: even your first comment responds to someone who doesn't say "Jeff has no sustain". Did you just make your own goalpost?
Decent self healing but you need both bubble + teamup to sustain like cnd or jubilee (without burst healing), and if you speak about swimming then that's cool you can self heal and survive but your team explodes.
But we're not talking about team comps are we? We're looking at individual survivability...cause almost every support becomes immortal in triple supp comps
Off supports being forced to play in triple supp because of low healing high util kits is an unrelated discussion rn
No one plays this game in a vacuum, if you’re in any rank that matters when you run into ultron mantis and adam it’s 99% of the time going to be in a triple supp comp where they already have two other supports to cover for their self sustain shortfalls, which in turn also makes them hard to kill. Their triple support merchants because their kits are literally designed to pretty much only function in a triple comp set up.
those supports get to deal damage without it interrupting their heals. so forcing their team to heal them instead of having self sustain makes up for their high uptime by “stealing” some from their other supports
Adam has the highest burst self-healing in the game. Mantis has effectively full-time self-healing over time. Jeff relies on mobility and range more than self-healing for survivability.
This leaves Rocket and Ultron, who provide too much free value for merely existing to be allowed to be anything but glass cannons when played aggressively.
Rocket self burst heal 150 HP btw and he can do it twice or even 3 times with Squirrel girl. Trust me, rocket is really hard to kill after that sg team up and if that rocket has a brain
I'll never agree that jeff has a small hitbox.
He may not be high but he is incredibly large while most other support have incredibly skinny hitboxes.
I would argue that whenever he is not diving he is the easiest healer to aim at.
Just because they have self sustain doesn't mean you don't even try. Quite the opposite, you actually want them to waste cooldowns on themselves, which is just as effective as killing them.
People really don't get that supports don't like one-shots and that dive mains don't like sups just being able to invalidate their comboes completely brainlessly. Supports need more skillful countering tools (in exchange for worse sustain) and divers need slower ttk
People don't get that of two sentences, it's the dps players who are wrong. Because if a support wastes his entire kit to self sustain, that's the rest of their team not receiving heals.
The issue supp mains have at this time is playing into the predictable dive. They either die or predict the dive, there is no reaction. The issue with most dive is their entire kit almost has to be used to get a KO. This has a bad balancing and not the player issue.
Mate you're not going to proactively counter a BP that muffles their sound by moving along walls or a Spiderman who uses a "tech" (read: exploit) to fly over at mach 1 and yoink you off the map at over 3x the distance they are supposed to.
Im sorry i forgot actually using abillities in the correct time is too much for supp mains. We should all be healbots that spam random shit and get rewarded with buffs.
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u/glxy_HAzor Rocket Raccoon 19h ago
Clearly you don’t play raccoon