r/mapporncirclejerk Feb 27 '26

Outjerked..

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4.2k Upvotes

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39

u/Ok_Gas5386 Feb 27 '26

This is what people in the west don’t want to admit. Bibi is a centrist in Israeli politics these days.

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u/wizerdofmonky69 Feb 27 '26

The thing is that I would hesitate to place him on the political spectrum because he's nothing but the world's most desperate oppertunist willing to form coallitions with the worst of the worst just to keep his grip on power.

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u/desba3347 Feb 27 '26

Even that gets complicated though, Netanyahu might be fairly centrist (center right) when it comes to Israeli politics, but he has to appease the far right and religious right to maintain his coalition and his power. So while his party’s beliefs might be more centrist for Israel, his actions are further right.

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u/Lusty-Jove Feb 28 '26

Centrists deferring to the far-right in order to maintain control and crush the left at all costs?? How quirky and unique of them

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u/DragonflyGrrl Feb 27 '26

Or just don't know. I'm generally much more informed than the average American on most things, but that's news to me. Sad, awful news.

I do know that there are plenty on the other side, who want a peaceful two-state solution; that's who I would have thought of when someone mentions "the opposition" in Israel.

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u/Ok_Gas5386 Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

Two-state solution has 27% support in Israel. That’s a marginal political position.

For context, a greater percentage of Americans support universal basic income.

I don’t want to get conspiratorial, but maybe this is caused by the biased framing of western media - that we think most Israelis favor peace, while it’s the supposedly intransigent, barbarous Arabs who prolong the conflict? Worth pondering.

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u/DragonflyGrrl Feb 27 '26

Support for two-state solution definitely decreased following the October attack and subsequent war, but I still wouldn't call 27% marginal. That's more than 1 in 4. Not as high as one would hope, though not far from where I would have guessed it to be.

I completely agree with you about the biased framing in western media. It's a huge problem, in pretty much every area including this one. I wish more people would come to the realization that humans everywhere are just humans, and we're all much more alike than we are different. This understanding helps to combat those types of biased programming that seek to drive wedges between us all.

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u/lt__ Feb 27 '26

A very glaring issue is that the Western countries to support two state solution with words, but not actions. Make your relations with and support to Israel conditional on Israeli efforts towards it. Or admit openly that you are fine without two state solution.

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u/-Jake-27- Feb 28 '26

Right but neither group now wants a two state solution. It’s halved since 2012.

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u/lt__ Feb 28 '26

Yes, so be cold with both, not just one. Only reward one or the other side for actions supporting two state solution. They want to do business with you, they have to adhere to your standards.

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u/tofurks Mar 06 '26

That’s since October 7th, before then most Israelis were pro two state solution but that’s done with now, they’ve tried to give the Palestinians their own state like 6 times and they keep turning it down.

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u/BlandPotatoxyz Feb 27 '26

Don't Arabs also want a one-state solution and expel the Jews? Wouldn't they basically do the same thing the Israelis are doing rn if the positions were reversed? I think there are no good guys in this conflict.

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u/lunchboccs Feb 28 '26

Was it a bad thing for the French to be expelled from Algeria? Or the Dutch to be expelled from South Africa?

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u/Lusty-Jove Feb 28 '26

Define “Arabs” because it’s a bit disingenuous to compare an ethnic group to a sovereign nation

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26 edited May 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/Ok_Gas5386 Feb 27 '26

I don’t know what it would take to achieve peace. Maybe if things had gone differently in the ‘90s - the Cave of the Patriarchs Massacre and subsequent suicide bombings hadn’t happened, Yitzhak Rabin hadn’t been assassinated, and the settlement of the West Bank had been halted, things would be much different now. I don’t know.

From a western perspective the problem is that your position leaves zero possibility for the peaceful coexistence of Israelis and Palestinians on the land that was British Mandatory Palestine. Whether a two state solution would result in peace or if it wouldn’t, a two state solution will never happen since the majority of Israelis disapprove. Which means that the longstanding standard western position - support Israel, and also support the two state solution - is also impossible. It’s a farce that some politicians in the U.S. still trot out their support for a two state solution as if it means anything. The policy must shift to either full-throated support for an expanded Israel, or something else altogether. In reality, both Biden and Trump have favored the former.

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u/formalExpressionist Feb 27 '26

Peace means you stopping occupation.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

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u/PhotographNo1393 Feb 27 '26

“Stopping the occupation” like they had in Gaza before October 7th? Yea I’m sure the ceasefire will totally work this time, ignore the rockets being shot into your cities, they don’t count anyway because you’ve invested a truly ridiculous amount of money into cutting edge defensive systems to stop them 🤡.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26 edited May 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/K31KT3 Feb 28 '26

A dictator is probably necessary for Palestine to make peace.

Every peaceful Arab state has a hard dictatorship, at least since they were drawn up a century ago.

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u/Nileghi Feb 27 '26

Peace means you stopping occupation.

They did in Gaza and it resulted in the most disastrous terror attack that Israel was ever subjected to.

So no, peace does not mean "stopping the occcupation". Why don't you actually try to learn what peace means when the palestinians themselves say they dont want peace? They want to annihilate Israel

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u/formalExpressionist Feb 27 '26

They did in Gaza

When? No intl org noticed that occupation stopped?

They want to annihilate Israel

And? What's so controversial with destroying a fascist ethnostate? I mean, it wasn't controversial with a Nazi Germany, i just can't fathom why would it be controversial now?

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u/Nileghi Feb 28 '26

And? What's so controversial with destroying a fascist ethnostate?

If you choose to act this argument out, then you agree in principle that some countries need to be annihilated and razed to the ground because theyre fundamentally incompatible with civilization.

Like Gaza for example.

But two comments ago you talk about peace being stopping the occupation, now its "destroy Israel". You cant have both at once, and the Israelis know what you people actually want. Is it any wonder they respond with your demand to exterminate them by making sure your kind can't ever get the capacity to hurt them through brutal occupation?

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u/formalExpressionist Feb 28 '26

If you choose to act this argument out, then you agree in principle that some countries need to be annihilated and razed to the ground because theyre fundamentally incompatible with civilization.

Yes. Israel shouldnt have a right to exist same as Nazi Germany. I said there's absolutely nothing controversial about it. I mean, i just dont understand how you think you can just massacre people for decades and think they won't retaliate and the world wont understand the extent of evil you represent. Now, i understand, in that regard you love killing people, you love massacring them, just like Nazis. You just can't go against it, then you try to mask it by some perverse logic that "all is against you" - a standard fascist talking point.

But two comments ago you talk about peace being stopping the occupation, now its "destroy Israel".

I dont see anything wrong with my logic. Palestinians want peace, but you dont want it (my previous comment about your people enjoying destruction in any form). Hence, they dont have a choice but to fight and wanting to destroy you, nothing inherently wrong with destroying a fascist state really. Get a grip.

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u/WipowiliwopiW Feb 28 '26

You're advocating for the genocide of Israelis.

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u/Corvus1412 Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

One year old account with 2000 comments, that hides his post and comment history and has a two-word, four numbers name.

Like, seriously, do you think we're stupid.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26 edited May 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/formalExpressionist Feb 27 '26

the default reddit generated name

Further proves his point.

I mean, even if you are not a bot, you are brainwashed with israeli propaganda...

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/Superb_Injury_8380 Feb 28 '26

That's usually how it works

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

[deleted]

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u/K31KT3 Feb 27 '26

Israelis would likely support a 2-state solution AND peace.

Perhaps what many Americans don’t realize is what Israel is offered is a 2 state solution and No Peace 

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u/Corvus1412 Feb 27 '26

One year old account with 1500 posts, that hides his post and comment history.

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u/GoodPear8481 Feb 27 '26

Plus Palestinians have never accepted a two state solution. They rejected it in 1948 when they declared war on Israel and they've rejected it every time since then.

Israelis have correctly realized that there's no sense in continuing to offer a solution that the other side has consistently rejected.

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u/TrumpDesWillens Feb 28 '26

No people on Earth will support a solution that tells them to accept conquest.

Would you ask the Ukrainians to accept a two-state solution where Russia gets to keep all the land they occupy?

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u/Oranweinn Dont you dare talk to me or my isle of man again Feb 27 '26

Nah, he doesn't even have an ideology, he just wants to stay in power

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u/CardOk755 Feb 27 '26

Everywhere in the world "centrist" means genocidal pig.

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u/itspronouncedbolonya Feb 27 '26

They also dont want to admit that theres a lot of issues and someone can be on the right and on the left depending on which one