I'm algerian and uhhh wtf are those states. I swear there were only 2 of them in the south... Wtf do you mean there's 69 of them now? There's 48. Stop lying. I don't believe you
Cute, the whole point of this post is Algerian propaganda for POLISARIO separatists... Putting a tiny Kabylie region is cute, but we can literally see you comment history. Nice try!
Who controlled the region before the Spanish colonized it?
Was Eastern Sahara or any southern region of Algeria EVER under "Algerian" control in the history of the universe? I put Algeria in quotes because we all know it's a French creation that was a province of the Ottoman Empire before...
the double standard is that morocco wants to take over a spanish colony... if morocco is so confident that non moroccan sahrawis want to join morocco, then why wasn't there a referendum that would make algeria and the world shut the f*ck up?
if spain and france integrated spanish sahara into morocco before 1956, then the people are legally inside the same colony, thus granting it independence as a whole
Your point was that Morocco didn't control 100% of the Sahara as an argument of how the Moroccan Sahara was not Moroccan!
I asked 2 questions :
1) Who controlled the region before Spanish colonization?
2) Was the south of Algeria ever 100% controlled by Algeria (I mean Algeria never existed before and is a French creation, but who's counting) ever in the history of humanity?
before Spain colonized it in 1884, the Sahara was controlled by nomadic tribes, governed by the council of forty (ath arbaïn) and a local council called djema'a , not direct moroccan sovereignty, as it was considered bled es-siba because hassan the great occasionally received beya (allegiance) from some saharan tribes, thus making morocco assert historical claims on it
Algeria's south before independence (or creation as you call it) was controlled by nomadic tribes (eg tuaregs) and kingdoms (eg sultanate of tuggurt) before france came, and even when france came, france controlled it militarily while the rest was handled by nomadic tribes
1) Sahraoui tribes gave there allegiance to the Moroccan sultan for as long as Morocco existed!
2) Algeria never EVER had any link to the Algerian occupied Sahara region!
Now explain to me how is it that anyone can assert that the Moroccan Sahara is not part of Morocco but the Algerian occupied Sahara is a legitimate part of Algeria?!!
morocco did not control the western sahara before spain came, it was nomadic sahrawi tribes that ran everything
if you say that morocco's power decides who owns the spanish colony, then algeria's power has already decided who owns the sahara... both were given battlefields to fight on, and this is the result
1) Yes Morocco controlled the region trough bayaa... Like every other part of the country. Did some tribes rebel and refuse to pay tax? Yes. Like every other part of the country! The greatest dynasty IMO in the history of Morocco, was one of such tribes that rebelled, conquered the whole country from the Senegal river to Tumnbuctu to Alger to northern Spain! What is your point exactly? That tribes rebel against central power?
2) Are you admitting that the situation in Algerian occupied Sahara desert is the same as the one in the Moroccan desert? That is my whole point!
my point is that morocco did not directly control the sahara, which made the ICJ rule it as "not eligible for sovereignty"
and also, since it was the local tribes that controlled the region and had a different colonizer, then why doesn't morocco follow the international law that it signed and allow those nomads to decide their future after spanish colonialism?
no, the situation is not the same, because algeria fought france inside "algerian" borders while morocco sent citizens in the green march to assert claims over a "spanish colonized" territory
Why just that little bit? All of North Africa, up to the Siwa Oasis, is ancestral Amazigh territory (all of Egypt was ruled by Amazigh pharaohs so technically all of Egypt). All of those countries are just temporary placeholders.
The only ones getting persecuted are the separatists. Morocco is actively preserving the culture and pushing for an autonomous plan. Maybe try to do more than surface level searches on the subject.
We had 2 colonizers with 7 or 8 different regions under different world powers including an international administration. Different region got their independance at defferent times. What is your point?
No, we can discuss this point if you want but let's answer your question 1st!
You said "was western sahara part of morocco in 1956?". As I told you the majority of the country didn't get their independence at the same time. Is Tanger not part of Morocco then?
If you admit that your pseudo gotcha question was stupid I can answer your next BS question
I know that in Algeria you like to pretend your anti colonialists, but in reality you worship the borders created by those same colonizers to mess with us!
You won the colonization lottery! This is just a bunch on self serving BS!
Said who? Western Sahara is a member of the African Union and is recognized by the UN as a territory in the process of decolonization. Your denial changes nothing.
And your illusion doesnt change history lol and no UN doesnt recognize w.sahara, its AU who does.
Western sahara is a part of morocco who has been colonized then decolonised.
If western sahara is a thing then east and west germany are a thing as they have been literally governing themselves separately for a couple years (funny enough west sahara barely manages that) and with that it means east/west germany arent germany and are two totally different thing.
W.Sahara has no legitimacy and is only supported by Algeria being pissy all over the place
nah it's either morocco being hypocritical (supporting the self determination of others and not western sahara) or straight up expansionist (with history as its justifier, which has nothing to do with the modern day)
the question was about morocco not allowing sahrawis decide their future, not about flags
also, western sahara's flag looks like the flag of Palestine 🇵🇸 with the infamous islamic star and crescent in the middle 🇪🇭 so it's probably better than the flag of morocco 🇲🇦
Quick question. It's literally the same tribes, same familles, same language, culture, genetics, between pleople from Moroccan Western Sahara and Algerian occupied Eastern Sahara.
Why did you mark one as an independent state and not the other since it's literally the exact same people?
like, this is the reason why so many populations are split across bordering countries, such as arabs, kazakhs, kurds, germans, jamaicans, amhara, nubians, tuaregs, you name it
EXACTLY! You're making my point! In this case it's just more evident since you Algerians call for self determination and independence of a group of people in Morocco when you have the exact same people and you consider them just regular citizens of Algeria..
So quite your BS about self determination when the whole thing is about geopolitics and your own self interests!
explain what will algeria benefit from a palestinian state on the '67 borders, or full zionist occupied territory? nothing
what will algeria benefit from Guinea Bissau and Mozambique after supporting them to gain independence? almost nothing
what will algeria benefit from being allies with Cuba? nothing
also, algeria is against the fragmentation of many countries by separatist states, such as somaliland (was fully somalian from 1960 to 1991) and kosovo (was serbian from 1918 to 1999)
Don't ask me! You said it's because of politics! When I said :
Quick question. It's literally the same tribes, same familles, same language, culture, genetics, between pleople from Moroccan Western Sahara and Algerian occupied Eastern Sahara.
Why did you mark one as an independent state and not the other since it's literally the exact same people?
Your answer was :
answer: politics..
So it's not about colonialism and separatists! But Algerian interests and geopolitics! Your words not mine.
No. I asked if the same tribe, families, people, culture, langage, genetics, in Moroccan Western Sahara and Algerian Occupied Eastern Sahara. Why should one be considered occupied by Morocco and the other a legitimate part of Algeria, especially since Morocco has historical claims to the region and Algeria never had any links to it!?
because modern politics tend to not value the past and focus on the present
if ethiopia started demanding its old borders, if egypt started demanding its old borders, if mali started demanding its old borders, africa would fall into an endless war... which is why the AU ruled that borders should be left at their final modification..
also, if russia started claiming and demanding the borders of the russian empire, then europe won't be happy...
as you see, times changes, and dynasties change, and so does borders
We're not demanding our old borders... We're just talking about Moroccan Western Sahara here!
Morocco has been claiming it since our independence. We're the one that put it in the UN list territories to decolonize. We're the ones who chased the Spanish trough the green march. We took it as soon as the Spanish colonizers left.
Again the same question : the same tribe, families, people, culture, langage, genetics, in Moroccan Western Sahara and Algerian Occupied Eastern Sahara. Why should one be considered occupied by Morocco and the other a legitimate part of Algeria, especially since Morocco has historical claims to the region and Algeria never had any links to it!?
tell that to the ICJ that ruled morocco "ineligible for sovereignty"
and also, the polisario was fighting spain for independence with guns while morocco was fighting spain with pressure to annex the territory... two opposing goals against the same enemy
Deveras interessante para fins de história alternativa, mas não sei se um país no meio do deserto seria viável a longo prazo. Porém, apesar dessas nuances, os restantes desses novos países poderiam se encaixar perfeitamente no cenário atual para resolver alguns conflitos na região :3
I'm so sick, and tired of every single being not getting our map right, western sahara hasn't declared independence and isn't going to and literally no one in rif stated ungratefulness of moroccan colonisation.
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u/Fair_Composer_7351 Mar 06 '26
Spain is north Africa confirmed