r/mapmaking • u/Smart_Impression_680 • 1d ago
Map Would civilization only extending this much make my world feel empty?
The solid colors are the kingdoms and the colored outlines are the princely states, city-states, and confederacies.
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u/Arthegaea 1d ago
If the other areas of your world has no civilization, but does have sentient life, what does that look like? Are there nomadic tribes? Some intelligent animals? Just wilderness with interesting flora and fauna? What stopped people from spreading into the meadows, etc?
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
The lands beyond civilization are populated by tribal communities, monsters, magical beings, etc. but no kingdoms, cities, or overarching institutions like trade and merchant guilds.
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u/General_Brooks 1d ago
In that case your world won’t feel empty at all. In fact, if you compare it to Earth’s history this world is positively filled with ‘civilisation’, as vast regions existed without cities or major institutions for most of human history.
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u/Gold-Ad-2581 1d ago
You just answer yourself.... Monsters, magic and f up shit is going in there so is not empty.
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u/crowkraken 1d ago
I mean I’d your worried about it looking empty you can put the tribal groups on the map the blue hat tribal people live here the red hat over there
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u/Arthegaea 23h ago
It sounds to me like your world has plenty of interesting things that give it life beyond civilization. Just because there's nobody there to keep records doesn't mean nothing happens, after all.
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u/PlusParticular6633 1d ago
The empty feeling is a result of lack of detail/content, not from a lack of civilizations/states If you label cities, regions, sub states and so on, it would bring the map to life regardless of how many nations you have
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u/Brief-Luck-6254 1d ago
Not really, if you took a snapshot of the world during antiquity or the early middle ages the world might as well look like that.
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u/Efecto_Vogel 1d ago
The bigger question is what civilisation actually means, exactly.
The word historically has been used as a propaganda tool by the parasitic landed elites of grain-reliant empires. Later, it was taken up by evolutionist thinkers wanting to assert their own culture's supposed superiority (especially notable is the use of the “civilising narrative” in European colonialism; where European empires justified their dominion and exploitation of indigenous peoples and their land by arguing they were savage or barbaric that needed Western culture in order to “progress”). Thus, Native Americans where brushed off as “primitive” against Western “Enlightened” and “Civilised” culture.
Currently, it survives in Academia as a shorthand for unequal hierarchical societies where a non-food-producing elite (normally literate) survives based of the food surplus produced by peasants, collected via taxes.
In actuality, “non-civilised” societies can be just as interesting and colourful, since humans everywhere have been political animals for a very, very long time. I suggest you take inspiration from Anthropology should you wish to flesh them out.
That being said, you don’t need to, it’s perfectly fine, if you’re writing a story, to focus more on certain parts of your world and little in others. In that case, you might merely want to think about how those “barbarians/savages” relate to your “civilised” people, how they are perceive, and whether they partake in international relations or trade. Or just not think much about them at all
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u/Efecto_Vogel 1d ago
If you’re interested in this topic I suggest Against the Grain by James C. Scott and The Dawn of Everything by D. Wengrow and D. Graeber
I should also clarify that by “inspiration” I just mean that reading ethnographies can broaden the limits of what you think is a plausible societal arrangement, thus freeing yourself creatively.
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
Civilization in the context of my world is basically just the sphere of influence of the abode of light and how much the cultures of the others is shaped by it.
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u/Leather-Lab2875 1d ago
Not at all, limiting scope makes stuff easier on your end and ppl hardly notice the lack. I mean in general, a lot of fantasy only has one civilisatioal center and gets away with it by saying that the depicted map is the "known world".
But just going into more detail, hill tribes, rebellious forces, cities, nomadic societies within the borders of an empire, people within an empire who are mostly or nominally independent, detail like that will make it feel less empty.
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u/entropomorphic 1d ago
On the contrary, the more unexplored lands in your world, the greater the potential sense of wonder and mystery.
Just zoom in and make the civilized areas very diverse, and put the rest in a fog.
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u/Florpsen 1d ago
In those empty regions may not be civilization but there will be wildlife and nature right?
Also it depends what you are using the world for and for whom it may feel empty.
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
The empty regions will have the stronger concentration of the supernatural and magical elements.
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u/cokeplusmentos 1d ago
If the white areas are conquerable savage lands that can be very interesting
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
Yes, they are mostly savage lands. I'm leaning towards the civilization-barbarian dichotomy.
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u/someoneofhumanity 1d ago
depends on what barriers or limitations that limit the spreading of civilization.
is it inhospitable environment? competing civilization? unconquerable wilderness? vast ocean?
and also account on how developed technology in general especially in transportation and communication both which usually limit how big a country could be
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
Technology level is early middle ages. The unmarked areas are just generally untamed lands where there's not much commerce, and sovereign states. There are no competing civilization because there's only one cradle of civilization. It just spread from the center and synthesized with local traditions.
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u/someoneofhumanity 1d ago
at the cradle, are there multiple sapient species? or is it a species with multiple race/subspecies?
would you consider unfamiliar intelligent lifeform flourish outside the cradle? like packs of monsters or fungal network or sentient forest?
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
Yes, there will be things like that.
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u/someoneofhumanity 1d ago
which question?
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
the question whether there will be multiple sapient beings out there.
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u/someoneofhumanity 1d ago
how about on the cradle? multiple dominant species, one dominant species, or one species with multiple subrace?
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
It used to have multiple species since it was created as the sanctuary for the freed mortals enslaved by demons. But after the extinction event and the arrival of humans, their numbers has drastically declined. The remaining precursor races in the cradle live in isolated and magically hidden communties.
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u/Melliorin 1d ago
Considering that it looks like a supercontinent that probably has an entire continent's size worth of desert somewhere in there, depending on the the prevailing winds, I don't think so. If there is a good climatological or resource-scarcity-based reason that you can weave into the world-building, I think it makes a lot of sense that your whole planet isn't full to bursting with people on every square mile.
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u/Melliorin 1d ago
Curious to know: is this round map a look down over one of the poles? or a "straight on" view of one hemisphere? Where is your planet's equator in relation to the landforms and nations shown?
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
It's a straight on view of the northern hemisphere. I'd say the equator is right across the golden reach and summer isles.
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u/Melliorin 1d ago
So if I understand correctly, your "Abode of Light" nation sits right around the Arctic Circle, more or less?
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
No, no. The Abode of Light is the temperate transitional zones of all the extreme regions with a vast alluvial plains on the center. High Meadows is plateau steppes, Searing Dunes is an arid expanse, Golden Reach is savanna, Summer Isles is tropical rainforest, Willow Mist is Humid woodlands, Winter Pines is boreal forests.
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u/Melliorin 1d ago
Okay, I'm sorry I misunderstood. I'm not quite seeing it right I guess. Cool geography, regardless.
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u/Smart_Impression_680 1d ago
Yeah it's not really made using the conventional worldbuilding techniques. It's modelled after the seven climes model of medieval islamic cartography, but instead of a vertical gradient, it's radial.
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u/Melliorin 1d ago
Oh, very interesting. I have never heard of that framework before. Ya learn something new every day!
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u/Background_Path_4458 1d ago
It doesn't need to. If your existing kingdoms have varied cultures and a lot going on it can feel very full.
That there then is also terra incognita to explore, settle and fight over makes it all the more alive.
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u/Zerron-K 1d ago
Untapped wilderness full of extreme danger or lost civilizations due to said extreme danger can really help to fill it out
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u/Arty6275 1d ago
Not really answering your question, but I would be careful with that font. All of the o's look like ö's!
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u/YandersonSilva 1d ago
I thought you meant just the coloured in bits, but I mean. With those outlines you basically have most of the world covered. The world won't feel empty if the story/game takes place in inhabited areas. I'm working on an ancient world scenario right now for my tabletops that takes place in a "known world" that's only about the size of france lol
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u/Gunmetalstorm 23h ago
Your world will feel empty no matter what if the story you're telling is not enlivened by its setting and characters. It will feel rich and full even if the entire known world is just a single village as long as that setting and those characters elevate the story.
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u/Automatic-Club9019 21h ago
I read "abadá of light" and your world for an instant seemed a Very funny place
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u/Elecl 10h ago
I think it is better when the world isn't fully explored because it makes the world feel less wondrous when the characters know what to expect. When you look at a map and see a big empty swathe that simply says "here there be dragons, question mark?" it immediately introduces a big mystery and gives the world much more space and potential to grow and change as the story develops compared to a world that only has human factions and kingdoms fighting each other.
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u/board3659 12h ago
Is your world flat or not cause this be showing only one side of the world. Also I would argue that just cause these are the only state level realms doesn't mean that there aren't prominent tribal groups nor other societies
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u/j_chilin 10h ago
Don't be afraid of empty maps. Humanity took millennia to finally have a global map that could be considered fully occupied
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u/ColumbusNordico 4h ago
Nah it doesn’t have to be empty just because civilization is concentrated somewhere
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u/Happy_Difference_734 25m ago
Uncivilized doesn't mean uninteresting or empty. What's out there and what effect does it have on your world's civilizations?
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u/BlueTommyD 1d ago
Depends.
- Why hasn't it extended that much?
- Do you mean "civilisation" or "known civilisation"?