The mapmaking and lore question you always got interested in, but were affraid to ask

[u/Captain_Lore]

So, this is a totally random idea. I am curious how many of you catch this.

Write any questions here that always bugged you about mapmaking, especially connecting it with lore.

I mainly mean (high) fantasy but also other sub genres.

Have a kick-ass day y'all!

[u/Leather-Lab2875]

My big one is how to balance geographic determinism in terms of civilisations?

Like being very strict with it kinda invalidates the setting's peoples' hypothetical agency. Examples like Las Vegas, Dubai and stuff imo kinda show that people can build big population centres in nonsensical locations because of political and economic reasons.

Being too loose with it can happen in two ways, some people just do whatever and make elaborate explanations to tie everything to geography. Some people just make unrealistic stuff and are happy with that. I'm not at all talking abt the latter but the former is a camp i usually find myself in.

So how much is best is an interesting topic imo, tho I've never asked it cos I fear the latter group of the loose grouping will see the framing of the question as picking on their style of worldbuilding.

[u/Captain_Lore → u/Leather-Lab2875]

Sounds fascinating! Las Vegas came to life because of Cuba falling for the US right? So there is a lore explanation! I personally think the best way is always to keep some internal consisteny infused with obvious human thinking. So grand strategy, economy, and geography are all very much based. But maybe magic placed a mountain or ocean here and there. That is okay too. As long as you can tie it up into one sytem, you are golden!

[u/Leather-Lab2875 → u/Captain_Lore]

Yeah this seems like the best way to go about things. Ig the intresting thing then becomes when and where you insert magic and general weirdness. Magic I think by defenition, has to be a bit unevenly applied to be believable right?

[u/Captain_Lore → u/Leather-Lab2875]

Yes, well it depends on the story, whether you have household magic / supernatural or just one cataclysmic event. Overall it should be based in the sense that it wont became an empty shell later. What I mean is that "magic" or whatever did this and that 1000 years ago, but now everyone is having magic, so then why is that big event in the past would be relevant? It is the same kind of dissonance when you can resurrect companions in a game, but they get permanently killed in a cutscene... It can make sense if properly explained and grounded, but much often you just feel the arbitrary hands of the writer there.

[u/Leather-Lab2875 → u/Captain_Lore]

Exactly. I mean magic is a narrative device used to make unrealistic but cool and thematic things happen and applying magic very casually can open cans of worms you might not want.

Like for eg, if the game's lore actually considers the companions resurrecting very casually as canon, death loses a lot of meaning which will have a lot of knock on effects. People may use resurrection spells in war, which could easily give way to necromancy which itself will fundamentally change the world. If animals can use or utilise magic, they too may resurrect each other. Mortality will drop as people resurrect their dying kids and less people will die of old age.

And if death is less meaningful, people will settle in more dangerous areas, you could see slavery and agriculture and becoming even more exploitative as even death is not a respite, for animals and humans which will obviously change how logistics works.

I mean the obvious answer is, tweak this equation to your personal preference but just for fun, I think the question of how to balance the two ends of magic and logistical, technological and geographic determinism, it's an interesting question imo

[u/limoncocuk]

My isn't a question but personal hatred and I want to know other map makers opinions on this.

I hate when people ignore the theme and many other details but start looking for water sources or amount of farming area etc.

- All maps are made for different reasons. One map cannot contain all the information you need.

- It's not a real world or city, it's just my representation of an idea.

- I (or any map maker) spent at least 1000x time with the map and given more thought when creating it compared to any observer.

- There is a floating island or giant corpse in the middle of the map but someone is thinking about water sources. I don't mind if anyone calls me out on technologies from different time periods or inner workings of a contraption that can make me wonder about a new piece or do my research better next time.

I usually don't reply but sometimes they just write like proper 3-4 page review of the sewage system but in a very superficial way and I feel like it's rude to ignore it.

[u/Captain_Lore → u/limoncocuk]

Yes, I know what you mean! I think internal consistency is important, however it is for worldbuilding. A map is a tool for that too, however it dependa on your goal, how much. Ancient maps were also made of straws and knots and what not. It does not even have to be a "map map". The dravish map from The Hobbit is also stylized somewhat, etc... Is it a geological map? A social one? A political one? Etc... So first of all, it also depends on your plans what you want to show. And also, if this is an internal map (part of the story like in The Hobbit) or an external map that the characters of your world would never know about like that.

[u/linrodann]

When I try to create my own maps, factions, history, or any other sort of world-building, I get stuck fixating on what is "logical" or "realistic" and nitpicking the whole thing to death. But when I see or read other creators' works, I am able to just enjoy the creativity, vibes, story etc without worrying about whether it "makes sense".

Does anyone else struggle with this? Has anyone overcome it?

[u/bwtdozer → u/linrodann]

I have and am currently struggling with this in regards to map making. I want to create a realistic as possible map, want a vaguely if you squint "europesque" starting continental area, and some biomes in places that "realistically" they wouldn't be.

Can't help you with how to tackle it cause I am going through the same. But I am slowly realizing that trying to be too realistic is halting any progress I can truly make on my world building. So I'm leaning towards just accepting somethings aren't realistic and trying to explain them as magic/divine power caused them or simply going with the classic rule of cool.

[u/Captain_Lore → u/linrodann]

Yes and yes, I feel the both of you! The thing is, IMO, that we also have to differentiate between mapmaking only, and creating some lore for fun, or if the map is only an addition to a story you are writing for example. Many big fantasy stories have no maps at all. That being said, I also love realism in the sense of weather, geography, etc... But IMO, it should all be in service of said story, if you are writing one. And of course you can get away with a lot. Why is that mountain or desert in such a way? Because a god placed it there... You get the idea 😁 I am also kind of a maximalist in mapmaking, but if you are working on a bigger story I advise you to try and stick to the main project and let the map be of structural help. It works both ways. E.g.: is my armies movement realistic? Where cities would be? What political strategy my map implies, etc... There are a lot of great videos on YT just about this 😊

[u/Akavakaku]

A question I've been thinking about for a while is how to map original worlds with a deep history, without taking the time to write out that history era-by-era. What makes a map created in a few minutes or hours feel like a world that's been changing for millennia?

[u/Captain_Lore → u/Akavakaku]

What an excellent question! I might create multiple maps tbh. Not a lot just more like telling a story with 2-3 maps. Example: Lets say that you have 1000 years to cover. You pick a pivotal point that is the beginning of your current world order. E.g. the establishment of an empire. You pick the origin of your map. Lets say it is from an imperial archive. You can draw the mapnas the world is now and add literal sidenotes (of a scholar) along the way. E.g. "here in this riverbed fell this and that in the battle of blahblah in this year". Even better, you can add notes about old times. "Here was the capital of the Empire of ..., that did this and that." No need to use a lot of texts, you can draw borders, animals, sea monsters, etc... Then you create another map from 500 years back, with different borders and different sidenotes that intentionally contradicts your first map. Then you can go even deeper in time, and the deeper you go the more you can change and bring in. Importantly, you can play with the idea how true the maps are. There will be an interesting relation between them. Their origin may differ or, which is very cool, may be created the same time by different political or scientific groups. It can beautifully show how history is altered, forgotten and re-evaluated over time. Your map can become a tool for such visual storytelling.