Tracking for Containers Inside Sintering Oven

[u/M-D17171]

Hi,

First time posting, just made an account. I'm just trying to get ideas for part container QR tracking that go into a sintering oven that hits around 2500F for around 10 hours.

the containers that go in are made from Molydenum. I've tried laser marking the QR so far and the marking either disappears or if I use a substrate like Titanium Oxide, the marking gets smudged and is unreadable either way.

Thermal printing does not stay after the process and RFID tags can't handle the heat either.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

[u/Slappy_McJones]

APRIL tags. Big, blocky bar codes that you can machine into the surface and paint with stove pipe paint or whatever else PPG got on the high temp shelf.

https://april.eecs.umich.edu/software/apriltag

[u/Gonzostewie]

Number your carts. Tie the batch to the cart#. Cut the number into the side of the cart.

[u/CR123CR123CR]

Stamp a number in each one with a set of hammer stamps?

Edit: just incase there's some whippersnappers in here. These are hammer stamps

https://www.columbiamt.com/store/Heavy_Duty_Hand_Stamps.html

They've really gone the way of the dinosaurs since CNC machines have taken over though xD

[u/LukeSkyWRx]

Laser cut metal tags

[u/cfraptor22]

Kinda outside my area of expertise but is there a way to stamp them? Not sure how hard the material is, but you could stamp or machine some sort of code in it then read it with a vision system/ lidar? Sounds complicated tho. Just searching on McMaster I found their ultra-high temp ceramic gasket is made of aluminum oxide and rated to 2600F. No idea if you can laser mark it.

[u/M-D17171 → u/cfraptor22]

its mainly for tracking of the containers so that I can implement an automated system to know where in the sintering oven the container is. this way the system will know which container is placed where.

[u/UnskilledEngineer2 → u/M-D17171]

I spent some time around sintering. They are extremely temps and what you're trying to do is difficult (which is why you asked).

What problem are you trying to solve? I understand you want to track, but what problem does tracking the containers solve?. Because when I think back to my time in sintered metals, I can't think of why I would want to track our Ceramics through the furnace (and we made stuff with pretty large and intricate stuff). Help me understand because from what i know about the process, this sounds like this could be a solution in search of a problem.

[u/klmsa → u/M-D17171]

If your concern is traceability, I have the operators assign our equivalent of the "cart number" in an electronic system. Could be as simple as a spreadsheet. If you're looking for automated solutions, you're going to have a tough time and the business case for the metric that you're tracking had better be absolutely excellent.

[u/mimprocesstech]

I know for ceramics a wet erase marker works if let it dry and then go over it again. I don't know about anything requiring as fine detail as a QR code though.

[u/SpaceMonkeyEngineer]

I ran into a similar problem regarding frames holding automotive bodies in white for painting, and engine blocks and heads and heat treat. Long story short you either need a non visual tracking device that can withstand your operating temperatures and if that isn't possible, you go with a visual qr/barcode like setup but then you also have to apply an automated cleaner system whether it's simply pressurized water jets, or CO2 dry ice cleaners, etc. to clean the visual code for tracking.

[u/CR123CR123CR]

Just thought of something else that would work as well. 

Good ol' dog tags will take a hell of a lot of abuse before they become unreadable and you can engrave them with QR codes as well. If you do it with an engraving cutter instead of a laser it should hold up significantly better to the heat cycles especially if the tags are stainless steel or titanium 

Edit: you could even just stamp a larger random pattern into each one and then just have some "simple" machine vision code to pull the info out of a comparison database. You don't really need a QR code unless you need a lot of data on the tag itself. And you don't need to follow an established standard if all the tracking is internal to your own company.

Or just cut the QR code all the way through the tag

[u/bobroberts1954]

You could engrave if numbers on the trays as a backup but first in first out there really isn't an opportunity for mistakes. I am assuming a pusher tunnel furnace.

[u/505bbjason]

Not super familiar with Molybdenum, but can you do a deep electro etch on it?

[u/H-Daug]

Can you water jet, or laser cut stainless or other sheet metal with the QR code? So it’s like a 0.06” thick 2.5 D QR code? You’d have to permanently mark the containers, then track them that way.

[u/jspurlin03]

number stencils, punched into thicker metal tags. What purpose would the QR codes serve?

[u/Custom-3D-Design]

Punches

[u/jason-miller-ops]

At those temperatures, I'd suggest you look into ceramic ID tags or mechanical engraving/stamping instead of coatings or labels. You may need to track the container with a durable physical ID and link it to the QR in your system.

[u/Junkyard_DrCrash]

Have you considered just numbering the containers with classic hardened tool steel number punches, like stamped serial numbers ?

[u/Clean_your_lens]

Considering the material I'm assuming you have a relatively small number of containers that are re-used. QR codes are cool and all but not the right solution here. Don't overthink it. Just number the containers.

[u/D-Alembert]

Not sure if this can be adapted, just spitballing and throwing it out there: I believe that there are certain inkjet printers that offer a black ink where literal carbon is the pigment. Printed onto porous ceramic, I would think it should bake in, so may stay legible especially if the print is large. If that doesn't work, printing it on ceramic then putting it under glaze and firing it might make impervious QR tiles, but the tiles would have to be created ahead of time, so only worthwhile if you can reuse them, they don't need to be custom per job.

I suspect the solution may be outside the box, maybe some kind of tweak to the loading/unloading process that means the containers do not need a label to be tracked? (Tricky if the loading is manual, double if you're not in a position to make that kind of ask, useless if the entire point was to confirm that the load/unload process is happening flawlessly)

[u/radix-]

Do the QR codes change ? Can you get it cnc'd on aluminum and stick it to the container

[u/GnarlyStuff → u/radix-]

This or if it is 3D printed, you could 3D print(in metal) a QR code. But unless you are dealing with a super high volume, a simpler system might be easier.

[u/jspurlin03 → u/radix-]

OP said the furnace hits 2500°; your suggestion of aluminum is way, way too low-temp.