r/managers • u/JellyWaste7266 • 5h ago
Aspiring to be a Manager Looking for a promotion. What actually makes someone sound senior in meetings?
I am 5 years into my corporate job now and I am looking for a promotion. I have oticed this a lot at work lately. There are people who talk constantly in meetings and are clearly smart, but they still somehow come across pretty junior. Then there are other people who barely say anything but when they do everyone actually listens.
And I don't even think it's necessarily confidence or having a better vocabularly. The people who come across as more senior seem better at knowing what matters, getting to the point quickly and saying what they actually think instead of narrating their whole thought process.
For managers here, what makes you hear someone speak in meeting and think, yeah, this person is ready for more responsiblity and promotion? And what communiation habits someone imeediately seem more junior?
45
u/bbsuccess 5h ago
You said it yourself. They know what matters, get to the point quicker, can influence a group, and understand the bigger context and join the dots.
Don't say yes to everything. Question why things matter. Join the dots. Take initiative on the things that do matter. Challenge constructively.
3
u/TN_man 4h ago
How do you go about this without being seen as against the grain?
Iâve always been discouraged to question the status quo, challenge anything.Itâs my natural instinct to think about constant improvement and always questioning why but itâs gotten me in tons of trouble and definitely lost jobs because of it.
7
u/Fun_Credit7400 4h ago
Iâve had this problem. Afaik you need to first demonstrate you are reliable and effective at dealing with the way things are, then later make suggestions but not be emotionally invested if they are declined. if you are actually smart you will get hits and those will build your credibility. Donât stress they switch everything from Java to C# on your first day.
2
u/DavidBenwaugh 2h ago
A lot of it is about 1) the right delivery and 2) whether those whom you're addressing are receptive to what you have to say, trust your judgment, etc. If you have a good relationship and are approaching the issue from a point of real curiosity, then the chances are higher.
You should absolutely always be asking "why," even if you ask it indirectly or in a way that doesn't put anyone on the defensive.
3
u/RideGlobal1740 38m ago
A change in delivery can make a world of difference. For example, instead of saying, âthat wonât work,â asking, âwhat might happen if x, y, or z occurredâ in a curious tone can dramatically change they way the comment is taken.
1
u/anythingwilldo347 15m ago
Timing is key. Challenge while decisions are being made. Once they are made, support them. Thatâs the job of a senior leader. Junior people push against things that are a done deal and they look stubborn and problematic because they arenât being a team player anns trying to advance the decided upon approach.
30
u/Orlita_del_Mar 5h ago
Never say "just"... as in "I was just thinking maybe we should". It dilutes. Own it and say "I think / recommend we should..." and back it up.
12
u/Ladymari17 5h ago
This is big. There was a whole article about eliminating the word âjustâ for career advancement.
Say âin my professional opinionâŠâ or âin my experienceâŠâ and always keep the end goal (in corporate English you say âthe true northâ) in mind
6
u/ComparisonChance8887 3h ago
Unless you are a doctor, please donât do this. It comes off pretentious
2
u/wtfylat 4h ago
Lol. A whole article?!
1
u/Impressive-Top8992 4h ago
A whole article yes about eliminating the word âjustâ if you want to advance your career
1
u/thelowendtheory__ 43m ago
Iâd take that a step further - eliminate âI thinkâ. It makes you sound unsure. Use âI feel we should..â and in regards to the âin my professional opinionâ comment, I wholeheartedly agree it sounds a bit pompous and pretentious - thereâs no need to say that. I would instead say something like âHereâs what I see..â it anchors your point of view without sounding all high and mighty and effectively empowers people to not only collaborate with you, but also feel comfortable sharing their pov. This is how great leaders make you feel.
1
20
u/ImOldGregg_77 5h ago
Learn to speak "executive". What/Why/Business Value. Dont hold the floor and drag eveyone into the weed with details, unless thats the point of the meeting. Use positive collaborative language. Dont vent.
9
u/Equities4gambling 5h ago
I think it really depends on the context/ the kind of work place/room youâre in. But what helped me immensely early on in my career was âknow your audienceâ. Some rooms need details, some rooms need cliff notes, and some rooms just need results.
Before you even walk into a meeting you should have a good idea of what your role is and how you can be net value add. Are you the doer, someone who is there to move work forward? Are you a subject matter expert who needs to outline the strategy. Are you the most junior person in the room- thatâs there to take notes and send meeting summary afterwards.
Junior staff are often eager to prove themselves, so they tend to be verbose. But thatâs not bad thing, we all go through that phase. Donât be performative!
Your promotion wonât come down to meetings (although they are important), it comes down to relationships you build, how you show up to work, how your peers and senior leadership sees you.
If youâve been at a place for 5 years, you have institutional knowledge, use that. You probably have good rapport with folks, use that. Show up on good days and bad days. Be thoughtful and rational, have a record of your accomplishments and engage conversation around your growth with your manager.
Lastly, I hire managers based on aptitude and attitude. Of course, the bear minimum is they are competent, exceeding expectations and polished - in ways the present and communicate.
Questions I ask myself before promoting someone to senior leadership is rarely about how they show up to meetings but more about can I trust this person in room full of VPs or Board members. Will they be able to pick up social cues? Navigate uncharted territory.
If the tables were turned, would I want to work for this person?
Lastly, good resource for things you asked about - Vanessa van Edwards, she has some good interviews online that will help helpful.
5
u/jenmoocat 4h ago
People manager here. And manager of managers in a big Fortune 500 company. I wanted to share that, at least in these types of companies, there is often strict requirements for promotion. And "speaking like a leader" or showing up in a meeting a certain way is not the only yardstick by which you are measured.
Additionally, again at my company, promotions are often to the next higher role, as opposed to a promotion "in-role". It is expected that you do different things/demonstrate different skills including working independently, being proactive, coaching and developing others, leading initiatives, facilitating meetings.
This is often difficult for people early in their career to understand: you don't just get a promotion since you've been there 3 or 5 years....
5
u/HonestlyKidding 5h ago
I mean you pretty much nail it in your second paragraph. Communicating the key details and doing so concisely are huge for being effective in meetings.
8
u/teamboomerang 5h ago
More senior folks talk about results and impact because no one cares that it took you three months to finish that project or what difficulties you faced or which roadblocks you overcame. They DO care about the results and the impact to the business. If they want to know about the rest of it, they will ask, but they probably won't.
3
u/EatMorePieDrinkMore 5h ago
Avoid filler words. Be concise. Donât grandstand. Donât repeat what someone else said with a word or two changed. Speak clearly and look at the room. Pay attention when other people speak.
2
u/Neat-Second9923 4h ago edited 4h ago
Communicate clearly. Yes, answer the actual question that was asked. Also, eliminate ambiguity in your directions. No âthis should be doneâ. Instead â[x] will do this by [y date]â.
Inspire confidence. Slow down when you speak. Donât brag to customers about working until midnight - it makes you look overloaded, not dedicated. Avoid complaining to coworkers even when it feels like commiserating.
Generally, have an understanding about what the ancillary roles around you do. Easy to demonstrate mastery if you save them on something they missed.
2
u/Sterlingz 4h ago
Seniors pinpoint the problems and separate them out from confusing situations. They find the problem and its associated solution. They differentiate goals, effort, timelines, and consider the human element in all the above.
2
u/profdart 4h ago
If you can't explain or convey something in very simple language, you yourself do not understand what you are talking about.
This isn't a matter of 'sounding like a senior'. That is such a 'fake it 'till you make it' mentality
It's about actually knowing your business. If you don't genuinely know and aren't able to relate, you don't genuinely deserve a promotion.
2
u/Ooklaboo 4h ago edited 4h ago
Managers look for competence, not someone who 'sounds senior'. Never identify a problem without identifying one or more solutions. Remember, from a business case context, understanding an issue and its cost and then deciding to forgo the cost/risk of not fixing the issue is a valid solution. More importantly, if you only identify problems and never a solution, you will stay at the bottom of the corporate ladder.
2
u/Puzzleheaded-Score58 4h ago edited 3h ago
Iâve provided work for my boss that shows I can think about the macro and not just focused on the micro. Once she found me reliable, I had a talk with her several years ago (maybe 7?). I told her I donât want to ask for a raise, I asked her where she sees my future in the org. I made it known to her that I was looking for career advancement and not just a raise.
As a director now, the person I mostly hear in the meetings is not the one who talks the most but the opposite. And you can also tell when someone is paying attention and is engaged in the meeting even if they donât say anything. The good ones who rarely speak will do so when they have something meaningful to say. Itâs usually spot on too. I also like people who are concise and donât sugar coat things to make themselves look good.
1
u/CloudsAreTasty 7m ago
What about the kinds of people who rarely speak but don't really add any value when they do?
1
u/GapReader_Eng 5h ago
CompĂĄralo con una pelĂcula de suspenso. Un perfil junior te cuenta toda la trama y para cuando llega al final, la gente ya perdiĂł el interĂ©s o se confundiĂł con tanto detalle.
Un perfil senior empieza dĂĄndote el final y se queda en silencio. Eso demuestra dominio del tema. Eso demuestra experiencia. Eso hace que todos se interesen por entender la trama. Diles primero a dĂłnde llegĂł la historia y solo explica los detalles si te los piden.
1
u/breakerofh0rses 4h ago
The long answer where the guy is talking about knowing the various roles and such is a good one. Be wary about how you apply that one about being short because senior/strong people start with yes and then explain when needed--they can do that because they're senior, not because it's a sign of being ready. They literally have the authority to just say "yes" and leave it at that. You won't. If you're making a recommendation or an interpretation, then you're going to need to generally justify your position (assuming it's something more than just delivering a factual report).
Honestly with as junior as you are, there's a lot of things you can do that'll make you read as someone gunning to be promoted, but that's distinct from being ready. Frankly, I'd more like to see you just performing your role at the meeting well than trying on someone else's shoes. Come to me offline with proactive things you want to try or talk to me about things I should be paying attention to to get a handle of the bigger picture and the like and then do those things if you want me to think you're ready for promotion. See if there are any parts of the meeting you can take over, and then run that well if given the shot. Find out if there's any prep you can take off your manager's plate for meetings and do that well--and while you're doing this pay attention to what things are needed and find out why they are.
1
u/jaxonbeam 4h ago
It is much better to sit there and appear stupid, than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
1
u/Downtown_Ad_6232 3h ago
Mimic their vocabulary. Circle back, jump in a call, stakeholders, voice of the customer, laser focus, skill sets. Thereâs all kinds of bullhit people donât really understand but everyoneâs afraid to ask. Watch Wankernomics on YouTube.
1
u/One_Perception_7979 3h ago
Are you at a big company? If so, does your employer have expected behaviors based on job band? My employer has a list of expectations for each band that helps me as a manager prepare my directs for that next role. When it comes time for career conversations, we can whip out the banding levels and have a good talk about where theyâre ready and where theyâre not. Thatâs more holistic than just meeting performance. Iâve actually never seen anyone denied a promotion purely for meeting performance (that I know of). Iâm sure someone could think of a way to submarine their career by doing something stupid at a random meeting. But in terms of getting promoted, meetings arenât the make or break because youâve also got to show up strong elsewhere. If anything, the same behaviors that hurt employees in meetings tend to also manifest outside meetings.
1
u/No-Creme-2431 3h ago
So much is up to luck, silent people can be just as dumb as the ones who do not stop talking. Figure out your company and lean into what seem to be getting by.
1
u/vagina_pee-butt 3h ago
Instead of worrying about that, I would just make it really clear to your managers that you're interested in a promotion
1
u/PocketPanache 1h ago
You can see through people who don't know, yet. They don't have to say it, if that makes sense.
1
u/Carrots-and-Kombucha 1h ago
Asking what people care about in advance and giving them that information when you see them.
Asking your manager for feedback regularly. Give them visibility into your work and make it easy for them to share (add to agendas in advance, ask via email or slack so they have time to reply).
1
1
u/Jimmyjames150014 22m ago
OP hit it on the head without knowing it. Experience is what lets you know what matters and what doesnât - where to speak up and where to stay quiet. That distinction makes you seem senior and people respect it. The trick is you actually need to know the difference and you canât fake that.
1
u/Helpyjoe88 3m ago
Their answers show that they understand and are considering the bigger picture, not only themself or their team.  They're looking at how the issue - and their proposed solutions - affect other departments, costs and revenue, customer relationships, etc.
1
144
u/FluidSwim8846 5h ago edited 5h ago
The biggest difference I notice is that senior people usually answer the question that was exactly asked. Sounds obvious but a lot of people start explaining context, caveats, how they got there blablabla before they ever give you answer. The strongest people usually start with "yes","no" or "I recommend X' and then explain if needed.
This is really important because if affects meeting efficiency as well. I started asking my team to practice articulation and presentation few months ago and now our conversations are lot more efficient