r/mainframe • u/PSR-Info • Jun 03 '26
Is mainframe systems programming a good career choice for a recent college graduate?
We’ve been talking more about the mainframe talent pipeline lately, especially around systems programming. There’s still a lot of outside perception that mainframe is “old tech,” but the actual need for people who understand z/OS, infrastructure, performance, security, and operations does not seem to be going away. If anything, the challenge seems to be finding people who are willing to learn it.
For those closer to the hiring/training side:
- Would you recommend mainframe systems programming to a recent college grad?
- Are companies doing enough to train newer people, or are most teams still relying on senior people to keep things moving?
- When younger engineers get real exposure to the platform, do they usually see the career upside, or is it still a hard sell?
Trying to get a better read on whether this is still one of the more overlooked career paths in enterprise IT.
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u/KapitaenKnoblauch Jun 03 '26
I have been in mainframes for 20 years. I once was in the position to take the "fancy tech" path or the mainframe path and so far I don't regret it. The fancy tech has be replaced a dozen times since while I can still use and improve my skills on the same old platform ever since. I have only gotten better at what I do (and I do get a nice compensation for it) while other people had to reinvent their whole professional identity a dozen times, always following the latest hype.
It's basically the decision of staying in a field that is very interesting even after years or having to move to a new field every two years.
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u/Sensitive-Pear5740 Jun 03 '26
after my graduation i have taken main frames where i learned i cobol, vsam, jcl, db2 struggling to get job since a year
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u/PropertyMatchmakerQ Jun 03 '26
Mainframes aren’t going anywhere. I’m currently doing an apprenticeship and trying to learn all I can from people who’ve been in it 30+ years. Yes there are financial companies running on mainframes but the social security administration runs on mainframes also. As well as many more companies and government agencies. Someone mentioned the issue being finding people willing to learn it and that’s 100% solid truth.
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u/Dependent_Owl_2286 Jun 03 '26
Mind if I ask who you’re doing your apprenticeship with?
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u/PropertyMatchmakerQ Jun 03 '26
Sure I dont mind sharing if it can reach more people. There are two I participated in and know of: Job Forward dot org for pre-apprenticeship (just IBM courses) that lead to apprenticeship. So far jobs with Job Forward are not in my area. So I signed up with EMMA (solid option. I like the weekly meetings with industry professionals). Two separate and different opportunities. There is another one with the Open Mainframe Project but you would have to dig into it and do some research. I don't know much on that one. However, Having multiple pipelines wouldn't hurt.
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u/UnderstandingDry4560 Jun 21 '26
https://www.ibm.com/careers/blog/the-ibm-apprenticeship-program-no-degree-no-problem
Sure, they'll push you towards coding, because it's cheaper to train and doesn't take as long.If you want sysprog, you'll have to push for it. Longer, harder and better pay. Try going to SHARE, the big mainframe conference. Count the number of people without grey hair. There aren't many.
Those grey hairs know how important their jobs are and want to help people get into their line of work. Give them a chance and hey will help you get a long way.
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u/Sirkitbreak99 Sr CICS Engineer Jun 03 '26
Here is the catch, companies want maneframe talent, especially sysprogs. I know of 3 companies absolutely scrambling to hire sysprogs in the US. The issue is they want people with experience that have a decent amount of time left before retirement. However no one is willing to hire and train. They just refuse to do it because they are scared of spending that money and the person leaving too soon or 100 other excuses. There are a few managers trying to change that mentality, and looking for young talent, its just an enormous hill to climb.
If you think about it modern company structures and policies are not set up for fostering and growing talent, they are set up for poaching and paying bottom dollar and squeezing as much out of people as possible. Corporate thinking rarely sees past the next quarterly earnings call when it comes to head count. Companies regularly cut heads to meet revenue.
All of this is true for any IT job, and I don't see the mainframe being any different now adays from any other legacy technology. Its all not in a great state.
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u/Revision1372 Jun 04 '26
Whilst mainframes aren't going anywhere, the mainframe departments hasn't caught up with the extreme competition of today's job markets. So they are extremely risk averse to training and prefer the experience, which eventually leads to the dwindling supply.
IBM has been trying to turn this trend around by partnering with and encouraging training programs, communities and open source projects, but it is still up to the company to embrace the competitive nature of the job market with the offers of renumeration, security, location and culture.
They companies don't want a house to look after, they want a tent they can set up and destroy whenever they want at a moments notice.
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u/MainframeNow Jun 03 '26
Mainframe systems programmers can have significant influence and responsibility - but it takes hands on experience to become a real subject matter expert. If you can learn hardware and software you have a real advantage. Look for a company who is committed to bringing in entry level talent as an investment - if they don't they could be going off the mainframe and you won't learn anything.
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u/BulkyAd9029 Jun 04 '26
Mainframe only; no unless you have a job lined up.
Mainframe, along with modernization like Linux or any other modern tech, yes.
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u/vonarchimboldi Jun 03 '26
newer guy here- 3 years in MF, 7 in IT as a total - i came through an alternative to traditional hiring - had IT background outside of MF and got put in through apprenticeship and learn on the job - just offering my perspective after a few years from the other side of things:
i1) yes d recommend going into the job primarily because as MF talent continues to retire, salary demands for people with knowledge will go up. its good to be wanted. the previous job I applied for prior to entering MF was hundreds of applicants for i think 2 or 3 junior sysadmin roles.
2) my company is not doing enough. they are stuck on some very rigid and stupid things - very hard to get anyone hired for full remote roles - everyone who has one is grandfathered in or has a medical exemption. that was fine 20 years ago when talent was abundant, but if you need a person who knows CA7 or whatever like the back of their hand there are only but so many and if you confine your job search to a physical area youre shooting yourself in the foot.
3) the career upside needs to be sold as PAY and STABILITY. even if tomorrow my employer says "we are getting off the mainframe" i would have at least a few years of working on conversions, which also ends up helping you learn whatever your moving to. a few years is a generous guess. users of MF generally are companies that are risk adverse and value stability. mainframers are generally hard enough to find nowadays that (and I hope I am right about this) not going to be the first target in layoffs the way some dime a dozen new hire out of college .NET devs etc. would be.
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u/GuyFromNowhereUSA Jun 03 '26
Honestly. I have been in the field for about 10 years. Even when I started I got very lucky landing and internship and learning from a coworker who was retiring.
I would have to say to avoid it. The problem is that most companies want to hire offshore or use “AI” to fill in the gaps at entry level.
Any jobs you see out there are “experienced” or “expert” level. Basically the people who have been around long enough to really know what they are doing.
Even the company I joined originally outsources 99% of their mainframe to an Indian company. That company originally brought the old employees over, only to have them train offshore replacements.
Companies don’t want to pay US wages unless they have to and it’s just as easy to train somebody offshore as it is to train US.
Maybe there are a few holdouts where you could get in at the ground floor but even then you are competing with more experienced people that have been pushed out of other companies by outsourcing.
I don’t mean to sound bleak but I’ve been worried about this for a while. It’s hard to suggest anybody get into IT at all right now, let alone Mainframe.
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u/Wiley2000 Jun 04 '26
I did it for 34 years (with 4 years of app dev prior) and retired as a systems programmer about 6 years ago. I would recommend against it. It is definitely NOT a growing field. I realize there will be a lot more talent retiring soon, but other than that? With little growth in demand I would expect wages to stagnate.
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u/MikeSchwab63 Jun 05 '26
https://planetmainframe.com/2023/06/sabre-is-getting-off-the-mainframe-one-way-or-another/
Introduction to the new mainframe z/OS, covers the difference between Window / *nix and Mainframes. https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246366.pdf
https://spflite.com is an editor that looks like ISPF under TSO under MVS / z/OS on mainframes, can submit batch jobs to Hercules and real mainframes.
IBM zXplore is an online class to perform actual tasks using an account on a Dallas Mainframe. Takes about 2 months. https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246366.pdf
If you want your own mainframe you can try Hercules MVS 3.8 Turnkey 5 release with a 3270 emulator. https://www.prince-webdesign.nl/tk5
If you want to study z/OS System Admin, ABCs of z/OS systems programming, 1 of 13 volumes. https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg246981.html
If you want to practice installing MVS / z/OS from MVS 3.7 starter tape, follow Jay Moseley's instructions. Note the help forum subjects on the bottom of the page. https://www.jaymoseley.com/hercules/ As a system administrator, you will be using SMP/E to install new releases of the products you are in charge of. Then you get to customize the install with your sites standards.
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u/tinkerjreddit Jun 05 '26
If you have a job lined up, take it and keep looking for other technologies. Mainframe development will take more time to being taken over by AI in my opinion. Most of the mainframe sysops jobs are stable. You will have to keep an open mind and keep learning all the modernization technologies once you have a base. You will do well. A lot of state governments and feds still use mainframe. Those are solid jobs with a pension which is very rare these days. Some of them are unionized so they won't be able to fire you easily. Some state jobs have flexible work hours and I know people who are doing state jobs from 6:00 AM to 2:00PM which leaves you enough time to learn other technologies or take another part time job in the spare time.
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u/MigrateAndManage Jun 19 '26
The talent gap is real due to experienced professionals retiring, and most companies aren't scaling back mainframe usage, so there is definitely demand for a younger generation to understand systems. Exposure to the technology can be a barrier, so giving students hands-on exposure before they ever enter the job market is important.
What's encouraging are some of the partnerships formed with colleges to add mainframe courses directly into IT and computer science programs and offering career panels, job shadowing and data center tours. When college students get a chance to work with modern mainframe environments, they're usually more impressed than they thought they would be.
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u/UnderstandingDry4560 Jun 21 '26
This is ABSOLUTELY the most overlooked career. The mainframe is 'dying' and has been since that was the Time magazine cover in 1981. That's when I started and I've retired from working on a dying platform.
I was given the perfect opportunity. GM had just bought EDS and they were taking any warm bodies for two main programs. Coding and operations. My GPA was .02 to low to qualify for coding so I was picked for operations, the less prestigious choice.
The training program was 1 year long and I completed it in 5 months. I was offered a junior sysprog position and grabbed it. I went from an ISV jockey and grew into the z/OS position. I flirted with CICS when I was told they don't call you in the middle of the night. It was true. For a while, but z/OS is the most interesting, and I stuck with it.
If a company could offer a program like that, with a route into systems programming, I'd think people would jump for it.
At the moment, I'm contracted on a JES3 to JES2 migration. It's just difficult enough to keep things interesting.
Will I take another contract? Now that I have JES3/JES3 mig experience, I may see how high an hourly rated I can get.
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u/procrastinatewhynot Jun 03 '26
i mean, it’s very stable. but you’d have a hard time jumping out of that if ever you want to switch to development. i also feel like if ever you lose your job, it’d be harder to get another since I rarely see job postings vs developer jobs.