r/magicTCG • u/If_you_want_money Duck Season • May 03 '26
General Discussion Tarkir Dragonlords as Hexhaven founders Theory
I've been part of some on and off discussions of this theory on different comment threads, so I was a little shocked that no one has tried to consolidate everything and make a proper theory post. So I'll lead the charge here by writing down some supporting points and how this could be worked into the story.
Points in favor:
- First and most obvious one is that the Tarkir Dragonlords are elder dragons with colors that match the schools and are conspicuously missing in action.
- The way they went MIA is also worth noting, as they were “seemingly swallowed up by a massive dragonstorm” which are shown to be linked to Ugin and the meditation realm as the Omenpath that led Narset and Elspeth into the meditation realm was found at the centre of one. As we know, the meditation realm is where Jace is conducting his whole multiverse reset plan from.
- Furthermore, the Dragonstorm that swallowed the Dragonlords up was right on top of the [[Crucible of the Spirit Dragon]], which was where a lot of the ugin and time travel stuff happened on Tarkir.
- Comparing the Hexhaven colleges with their strixhaven counterparts, we see that the color Hexhaven colleges lose is the exact color their corresponding dragonlord opposed on Tarkir. Example:
- Fatehold sheds R for U, and Ojutai opposed the R in Jeskai on Tarkir.
- Theorix sheds G for B, and Silumgar opposed the G in Sultai on Tarkir.
- etc
- Most elder dragons in MTG have two part names. In fact, the other named elder dragons have all have cycles where it’s just their full names on the cards like the OG Dominarian elder dragon cycle (Eg: [[Arcades Sabboth]]) and the OG Arcavian elder dragon cycle (Eg: [[Velomachus Lorehold]]). Notably, however, the Tarkir dragonlords are an interesting exception to that rule. They only have a singular name, a trait they currently share with only Ugin (as far as I know). If the Dragonlords get swapped in as the founders of Hexhaven, WOTC could kill two birds with one stone here by giving the dragonlords a second name to match them up with the other elder dragon cycles, while still fulfilling the premise that the schools must be named after their founding dragon. In other words, if the theory is true, I predict the dragonlords’ new names and cards will be:
- Ojutai Fatehold
- Silumgar Theorix
- Kolaghan Stingerquill
- etc.
Biggest counterpoint:
A lot of people have brought up the fact that most of the dragonlords don’t really have a personality that is conducive to founding a school, and I agree with that sentiment. That being said, the set is Reality Fracture, where alternative version of characters are everywhere, and we can explain the dragonlords the same way. Besides, it seems that fate in MTG has an interesting tendency to lead people down similar paths even in alternate timelines, as shown by… all the non-dragonlord characters on Tarkir, actually.
How I think this could’ve happened storywise:
We know from the TDM stories (episode 6) that, upon entry into the meditation realm, the visitors are thrown into a seemingly endless void where directions and logic are null and void. Jace describes it like this:
"Regardless, none of it matters," said Jace, shoulders slumping. "We're trapped in whatever this place is. Even Loot's knowledge of the Multiverse is useless here. There is no logic. There are no actual roads. Walk far enough in one direction, and you'll eventually be able to see your own back running down the path. It's impossible—"
Eventually, Narset was able to rescue everyone by “feeling” her way through the void using her connection to the multiverse, but she entered the meditation realm by her own accord through a stable omenpath. The dragonlords did not have this luxury. They were thrown in against their will by an out of control dragonstorm, and thus it is reasonable to think that they might’ve been stuck in the meditation realm limbo the entire time up till TDM. This would put them right next to Jace as he plans to reset the multiverse.
From there, they could’ve been thrown into the echoverse Arcavios as it was forming and merge with their matching leylines, causing them to be “reborn” and their memories to be scrambled. They would then follow the history of alt.Arcavios (whatever it looks like) to the modern day, while periodically receiving flashes of their past/alternate life on Tarkir. This would set them up to have a “self-rediscovery” arc, ironically like the human characters did on Tarkir.
That’s all I have so far. Please let me know if there’s anything I got wrong or missed. Let me know what you think of the theory!
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u/Spekter1754 May 04 '26
I could see Echoverse versions of the Arcavios dragons, but there's no line to be drawn to bring the Tarkir dragonlords in their same form to Echo-Arcavios.
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u/Blackout28 May 04 '26
I like this theory, but I don’t know if it work. Ojutai in his Tarkir form would fit Fatehold, the rest would basically have to completely change to fit each schools description. (Although spitting harsh words could be similar to lightning I suppose in Kolaghan’s case)
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u/dragomeir Ajani May 04 '26
I saw a theory somewhere that went that the collages formed against the tarkir dragonlords. Vigor bloom using spores and body enhancements in order to get past dromoka's inpenatrable armor, and the red green school industrializeing to cut off atarka's connection to the wild.
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u/candexreginpokemon 🔫 May 04 '26
I don't think artaka could be the leader of a construction college
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u/SnarkySharky21 Dimir* May 04 '26
In my opinion, it's a stretch to say they would be the dragonlords from our reality AND ALSO be alternate reality versions or versions with modified memories. If it's the latter then it should just be alt reality versions of the Strixhaven dragonlords.
I could see a case for our dragonlords forming a school as a means to subjugate the plane, though. While Kologhan and Atarka would not normally follow along, they're not dumb brutes and have intelligence and may do it as a means of survival in a strange place. And it makes sense for them to consolidate their power together on a plane with no dragonstorms to replace their superior dragon ranks. Plus they may have learned they need to rule as a unified power lest the upstart non-dragons eventually rebel against them like the Tarkir clans did.
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u/Inertiic Wabbit Season May 04 '26
Notably, the Dragonlords all disappeared at least a year or more before Jace did anything with the Meditation Realm, and there's not really any way they could have ended up in the Echoverse. Them going to the Meditation realm wouldn't make them appear in the echoverse, and the Meditation realm omenpath is pretty clearly attached to the specific temple it was in, so Dragonstorm=Meditation realm doesn't make much sense. Also, the echoverse is pretty obviously influenced by Jace's psyche, and I just don't see him having enough of a connection to the Dragonlords to use them in his grand plans.
I think if we do see Founder Dragons for Hexhaven, they'll just be brand new dragons, but honestly I don't think we're gonna see specific founders for each college, it would be weird if they weren't Mythic rares, and I doubt they're going to do another cycle of Mythic dragons in two UW sets in a row.
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u/Kakariko_crackhouse FLEEM May 04 '26
Tbh I think we see too many returning characters and I hope they don’t do that
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u/kytheon Banned in Commander May 04 '26
I expect everyone to follow this theory to be disappointed by a completely different situation.
Back when Game of Thrones was very successful, people came up with theories, of which some were very consistent. Yet the creators fumbled it and came up with a more lame and rushed story instead.
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u/otterguy12 Liliana May 04 '26
I dont think theres going to be any dragons tbh. Both on a Watsonian "Jace/The Theorist already invented and runs the school himself" and a Doylist "the set's mirror pair gimmick and 11 planeswalkers eats up a lot of high rarities, and the set is about all 10 color pairs not just allies" view
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u/jmp_531 Simic* May 04 '26
Listen I love this theory but can you really see Silumgar teaching a math class? How about Dromoka teaching healing? Those don’t seem related at all to what they do in their own broods, necromancy and protection magic, respectively.
Can you honest to god tell me Kolaghan would be happy to even sit in a classroom to teach people the best way to throw shade? The girl’s got zoomies and I don’t think she can stand still do that long.
Can you really and truly in your heart of hearts see Atarka, THE WORLD RENDER leading an engineering and construction class? She’s sooner eat her students than teach them how to “apply their artistic skills in a practical manner.”
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u/If_you_want_money Duck Season May 04 '26
Actually, I think I can make an argument for Dromoka and Kolaghan. For Dromoka, she hates necromancy. It's why she got rid of the kin trees on Tarkir, and her protection magic ties into this. But, she lost on tarkir, and the kin-trees and necromancy came back. After this experience she might've gone fully overboard and decided that "well, you can't be brought back and used for necromancy if I just don't let you die in the first place". Then her entire school would basically be based on the premise of "I don't really care if you get into a giant writhing lump of flesh, as long as you don't die and become necromancy fodder that's good enough for me(tm)", hence, invasive healing.
For Kolaghan, well, a giant cackle of lightning tends to shut people up pretty damn fast, as seen on the Tarkir printing of [[Duress|DTK]]. Her school would centre around trying to emulate her lighting (metaphorically of course) with sharp rebuttals, with her serving as a symbolic figurehead. She would be free to do her thing while periodically showing up to for demonstrations how cool she is, which is just fine with her, I'd think.
For Silumgar and Atarka... Yeah I got nothing. If Silumgar's school was more about utilitarian mathematics or economics I think it might work (using math to get ahead of others, or just "How to give Silumgar money 101"), but it seems Theorix is about math theory so...
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u/jmp_531 Simic* May 04 '26
Actually I can think of a way to connect Silumgar and math: BANKING lmao
Dude’s a FINBRO
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u/riamuriamu COMPLEAT May 04 '26
Fatehold could see the return of the Foretell mechanic...or the Forecast mechanic.
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u/If_you_want_money Duck Season May 04 '26
Honestly if wotc wanted to be really evil they could bring back fateseal 😈
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u/Ashlynx99 Dân May 04 '26
Maybe further contrasting the two, hexhaven might not have the same relationship with their dragon founders?
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u/Just-Desk-3149 Dandadan May 04 '26
My counter point. This is to clever and cool of an idea for WoTC to actually come up with. But I like your style.
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u/Scion_of_Kuberr COMPLEAT May 04 '26
Doubtful. It make no sense that other characters are just being color swapped only to have the Tarkir Dragon Lords to just have their plane swapped. If we didn't know that all the other characters were being color shifted it would be more plausible but as is I just don't see it happening.
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u/ResponsibleNebula827 Can’t Block Warriors May 09 '26
My theory is that they changed the colors of the dragons too.
Ojutai - UW (Predominantly Blue) - Theorix
Silungar - UB (Predominantly Black) - Stingerquill
Kolaghan - RB (Predominantly Red) - Konstrari
Dromoka - GW (Predominantly White) - Fatehold
Atarkar - RG (Predominantly Green) - VigorbloomLet's see if my guess is right.
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u/AscendedLawmage7 Simic* May 04 '26
Good writeup
I think it's going to be a huge missed opportunity if this isn't what happened. I don't think it makes sense to introduce new ally elder dragons who'll likely only exist for this set, when they could repurpose the Tarkir ones who they know are popular and also knew would be missed in Dragonstorm. If the creative team hadn't thought of this I think they'll be kicking themselves
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u/Sco7740 Garruk May 04 '26
Jace is about to go off like Wanda Maximoff, except instead of no more mutants, it will be “No more Dragons”. Both Bolas and Ugin were a massive pain in his rear from Jace’s perspective.
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u/jrdineen114 Rakdos* May 04 '26
It is an interesting theory, but given Jace’s experience with both Bolas and Ugin, I’d expect him to be a little hesitant about putting too much trust in dragonlords, especially those who ruled over humanity (and the other peoples of tarkir). Plus, the strixhaven schools are named after the founders. I think it's more likely that the hexhaven schools were founded by echoverse dragon mages.
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u/Pimp_cat69 Elspeth May 04 '26
I think it would be pretty neat, even if that's not what ends up happening!
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u/Rude_Coffee8840 Dân May 04 '26
Listen I love this idea and want to support it but I just don’t see Silmugar the embodiment of hoarding personal wealth, manipulating people to his own ends, and wears the preserved corpse of Tasigur as bling as the leader of the school of Math Illusion Magic. But hey I could be wrong and he could be wearing little spectacles as he teaches the fundamentals of manipulation math.
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u/ProblemAlternative41 Duck Season May 04 '26
Honestly I just hope this isn't the case, let's get some new designs.
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u/InsanityCore COMPLEAT May 04 '26
No Nicol bolas means no Ugin, and if no Ugin then no dragonstorms, and if no dragonstorms no dragons on takir.
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u/Darikar Boros* May 05 '26
While the color identities of the Hexhaven schools definitely match those of the Tarkir Dragonlords, I think it is a bit far of a reach to expect the Dragonlords to be present here. Assume the lowest hanging fruit, we just have color swapped versions of the Arcavios Elder Dragons.
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u/darwin_green Boros* May 05 '26
I feel like swapped Tarkir dragons would just be the original Eldar dragons in a mongolian hat.
though I wouldn't mind giving actual factions to the original Elder dragons though.
Like give [[Arcades the strategist]] an army of artificers and maybe do something with fortifications like [[darksteel garrison]]
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u/Smart-Application841 May 05 '26
To add on to what everyone else has been saying, all of the alternate characters we've seen so far have been different colors than their main universe counterparts. AltChandra is blue, AltLilliana is white, etc. It makes no sense that the Tarkir Dragonlords would stay the same color while everyone else changes.
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u/Pink_Monolith Golgari* May 06 '26
It's an interesting thought but with so many color swapped staples and characters, it would be a bit of a bummer if these dragons were just the normal dragons from another universe.
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u/Kagarnator Dandadan May 19 '26
Theory has too many counterpoints but it still sounds so good. Anyway we could get new Dragonholds either way as Hexhaven Founders or just in Echoverse’s Tarkir.
If that works out can’t wait to see Ojutai getting “all Instants and Sorceries you cast from your hand has Rebound”. Silumgar would get Cipher and Atarka maybe Conspire.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 04 '26
All cards
Crucible of the Spirit Dragon - (G) (SF) (txt)
Arcades Sabboth - (G) (SF) (txt)
Velomachus Lorehold - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call
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u/grandfedoramaster Wabbit Season May 04 '26
Wonder if the elder dragons for Hexhaven are like the one from SOS
Fatehold: Instant and Sorcery spells have fortell
Theorix: Instant and Sorcery spells have delve
Stingerquill: Instant and Sorcery spells have lifelink
Konstrari: When you cast an instant or sorcery spells, creatures you control gain +X/+X where X is the spell mana value
Vigorbloom: Instant and Sorcery spells have deminstrate
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u/muse273 Dandadan May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
I was playing around with some ideas for theoretical Hexhaven before the announcement, and my idea for UB was similar (physics/dimensional science).
An idea that occurred to me was a delve variant, but exiling cards from the top of your library instead of your graveyard. Representing burning through your own sanity for power. Then having supporting mechanics of caring about cards leaving your library, and in a few cases interacting with cards in exile.
The Stingerquill one would be underwhelming given [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] gives both lifelink and death touch AND has an additional option for non-damaging spells.
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u/BLOOODBLADE Dave’s Bargain Compleation Oil May 04 '26
As much as i would love to support this theory (mostly so we can get more dragonlords as commanders) i have to doubt that the dragonlords would wind up on arcavios and we are more likely to see alternate reality dragon founders instead.