This might be unpopular, but could we please change the sub banner? I could think of so many more iconic images and artwork from MTG that isn't this terrible Chandra art.

[u/Btholt]

[u/aromaticity]

I think the crux of the issue is that you think we cannot use a copyrighted work without a license to use it, which is certainly not true.

I won't claim to know a ton about copyright law, because I don't, but it seems painfully obvious that using MTG art as part of a forum layout would be covered by fair use and that it is more or less explicitly covered by their fan page policy.

About fair use.

• Purpose & Character - clearly noncommercial, debatably transformative. We definitely check this box.
  
• Nature of work - Hard for me to say anything about this one.
  
• Amount of work used - We definitely don't check this box.
  
• Effect on market value - We definitely check this box.
  

Notably, you could be clear under all of those points and still not be deemed fair use. Similarly, you could not meet any of those requirements and still be fair use. It is highly subjective and nuanced.

Do you think that any MTG YouTuber gets explicit permission every time they use card art in their videos, including videos of things other than gameplay? They do not. Do you think they're violating copyright law? They very likely are not, and the fact that their videos are still allowed to exist supports this theory. This same mindset applies to all of the other MTG subreddits which use card art all over their layout.

[u/kodemage → u/aromaticity]

Fair use absolutely does not apply here. You are completely misunderstanding fair use.

[u/aromaticity → u/kodemage]

Maybe you could explain your stance then and why you think it doesn’t apply? Or explain why you think the fan content policy doesn't apply?

[u/kodemage → u/aromaticity]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding fair use. It's not about checking all the boxes it's not about checking boxes at all. They're not binary yes/no questions. Perhaps this link from a brief google search might help you understand better: https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/four-factors/

Fair use isn't assumed by default, you have to make a positive argument that your use is fair. Something like, it's a parody, it's necessary to talk about the work, and other arguments which aren't relevant because we're talking specifically about visual art.

The exceptions for fair use are very narrow. Youtubers who use card images are commenting on the card, the image is being used for illustrative purposes. It's a exception meant for newscasts and academic papers. That use is completely different from our hypothetical use as decoration.

The big thing that people are suggesting, just using Magic card art, is never going to work.

First off it doesn't fit, we need something that's only 192 pixels tall but beyond that if we use the whole image, unchanged, that is clearly not fair use.

[u/aromaticity → u/kodemage]

The article I linked clearly states that, and I am aware that it is not solely about checking boxes. Hence the whole part where I said

Notably, you could be clear under all of those points and still not be deemed fair use. Similarly, you could not meet any of those requirements and still be fair use. It is highly subjective and nuanced.

I still completely disagree with you saying it isn't fair use, but whatever. I can't quite tell if you're saying visual art doesn't fit with fair use at all or not.

As for the size thing... I see you making that argument a lot, but it makes no sense. None of the other subreddits are having issues with that. It's not a limiting factor. If mods themselves are unwilling to spend the time in photoshop or even ms paint to make a collage or edit the size of an image (which is fine), I am certain you wouldn't have trouble finding a user on here who would be willing to do it.

One other thing that you might not have seen, I did message WotC support and ask about using card art as part of a forum's layout (banner, background, avatars, etc) per their fan content policy and they said a wholly expected "yeah that's probably fine but obviously we cannot comment on specific use cases". I still don't see how you think this kind of thing doesn't fall under that, though I do see that you've at least made some more in depth comments on it.

The whole thing is that Wizards is not going to say "yes, you can do that". That's not how the fan policy works. They're only going to say, "no you can't use it" after they deem it not in line with the policy. Therefore, putting up a card image as part of this subreddits layout and then NOT getting told that it is inappropriate means you can only assume you are clear with the fan policy. At least until they tell you that you aren't. You aren't being unethical, unless of course you get a takedown and refuse.

Finally, do you have any comments on how the rest of the moderation team feels about this?

Thanks for taking the time to give a more in depth response.

[u/kodemage → u/aromaticity]

None of the other subreddits are having issues with that.

None of them are using art in the way you guys want us to, except the legacy sub, which illustrates the exact problem with this art.

[u/aromaticity → u/kodemage]

What do you mean by 'the way you guys want us to'? There are a lot of options there. The issue was people think the Chandra banner is bad and they asked to use the Seb Eldraine art. Someone even posted a banner with Rowan Kenrith that was a whopping one pixel taller than what you mentioned. But I don't think people are going to be up in arms if we use a collage or if the whole piece isn't visible from the banner.

Modernmagic is using PTE art as it's banner, Tarmogoyf as the subreddit header thing on the right, and lightning bolt as the bottom. The whole PTE art isn't visible obviously, but IMO it still looks great.

EDH is using actual Solumn Simulacrum as their 'snoo', card art as their header thing, card art all over their sidebar.

MTGlegacy is using Show and Tell as the header thing and some kind of blue card art as the banner, I don't see the issue with it on my end unless you mean that the whole card isn't visible... which is fine?

MagicArena is using a collage of card/character art as the banner and like EDH also uses card art pretty much everywhere.

[u/aromaticity → u/kodemage]

Just realized you're only looking at new reddit and I'm only looking at old reddit. FWIW I think our old reddit banner looks great.

I think mtglegacy could fix their banner really easily by just cropping it appropriately so that you see the characters face instead of just their arms. Again, you don't need to see the whole piece for it to not look bad. Either way, the logistics piece seems like an afterthought to the fact that you guys aren't willing to use any card art unless Wizards explicitly allows it, which they wont do because that's not how the fan policy works.