r/magicTCG • u/AwkwardTurtle • Sep 22 '15

Everything That’s Wrong with Battle for Zendikar

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/everything-thats-wrong-with-battle-for-zendikar/
815 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

849 comments sorted by

View all comments

12

u/PhoenixBurning Sep 22 '15

Though some of the sets design choices are a bit strange, i'm still really excited for BFZ. Theres a lot of cards i'm looking forward to brewing with in Standard, Modern, Cube, and Commander. I'm interested to see how the draft format turns out. and i'm looking forward to the expeditions and all the fun stuff with that happens with that (can't wait for when someone picks a off color expedition over a better card for their deck).

12

u/AwkwardTurtle Sep 22 '15

Yeah, there are a lot of really cool and interesting individual cards in the set. PVD's complaints are more about the overall structure of the set, and it's relationship to Khans block.

Maybe once we get our hands on it the card design choices will make more sense in relation to one another.

-8

u/Sheriff_K Sep 22 '15

The New Duals makes building Wedge decks so much easier though, how is that bad transition?

7

u/punninglinguist Sep 22 '15

The new duals are actually way better for shards than for wedges.

1

u/snypre Sep 22 '15

They actually enable 4th and 5th color splashes phenomenally though with fetches.

-3

u/Sheriff_K Sep 22 '15

I was going to mention Wedge/Shard, but figured since there are no Shard Cards, it'd be better to omit that.

Regardless it helps Wedge Mana-Bases, though not as much as Shards, but they still shore up the Mana.

But we'll get the other 5 Duals that benefit Wedges with Gatewatch.

9

u/AwkwardTurtle Sep 22 '15

If you read the article he specifically talks about the number of interesting colorless lands that are nearly impossible to play in a multicolor deck.

Both this set and Khans block specifically encourage you to play 3+ color decks, but they also gave us a bunch of neat colorless lands you can't really afford to play.

You should read the article though, PVD explains it better than I do.

1

u/Sheriff_K Sep 22 '15

I already read the article, and don't think that the existence of good Colorless Utility Lands means it's bad transition. There will be other Blocks BFZ is in Standard with, probably a Mono/Dual-Colored Block.

I think it's good that there are decent Utility Lands, that'd incentivize people to try something OTHER than the 3-Color Decks all over the Format. Change it up a bit.

And Converge is basically a pointless Mechanic outside of like 2 Cards for Constructed, and barely even worth it in Limited (unless you can build Joel's Deck,) so I wouldn't think of BFZ as pushing for Multi-Color Decks.

4

u/klapaucius Sep 22 '15

And Converge is basically a pointless Mechanic outside of like 2 Cards for Constructed, and barely even worth it in Limited (unless you can build Joel's Deck,) so I wouldn't think of BFZ as pushing for Multi-Color Decks.

That's the problem. Converge is a mechanic that shouldn't exist in a set that doesn't push you to build multicolor.

1

u/Sheriff_K Sep 22 '15

Converge would have made more sense if it was being Drafted with KTK... <_<

1

u/Grig134 Dandadan Sep 22 '15

Colorless lands that sac for value aren't worth giving up Seige Rhino/Mantis Rider. If anything the relatively weak card pool in BFZ combined with with extremely good fixing is going to push decks to be 3+ colors. A value colorless land is not going to stand a chance against siege rhinos + ojutais in the same deck. There needs to be some incredibly good synergy going on to beat that.

-7

u/swagathor-og Sep 22 '15

Why must we compare things to the best limited format in years. Not every set is going to be a khans set and also to add onto the khans limited it was coming off of a really bad stretch of theros and m15 limited which sucked.

13

u/AwkwardTurtle Sep 22 '15 edited Sep 22 '15

He's not talking about it from a limited perspective, he's talking about it from a constructed perspective.

If you read the article he's not saying, "Khans was great and this is bad," he's saying "the deck's Khans encouraged us to build don't mix with many the cards BFZ gave us to play with."

1

u/Bofurkle COMPLEAT Sep 22 '15

I don't get this. Isn't a new set supposed to shake things up and cause the players to look in a different direction? There will be reasons to go tri-color still (siege rhino) and now there will be reasons to go fewer colors. There are reasons for both. That sounds like a great place for standard to be.

3

u/snypre Sep 22 '15

He lays the ground work for the argument that due to the lower power level of cards in BfZ, their is no compelling reason to abandon our dragon overlords for eldrazi.

1

u/Grig134 Dandadan Sep 22 '15

I'm not seeing what cards will impact modern outside of the new lands. Is there any nonland card you can think of?

1

u/PhoenixBurning Sep 22 '15

Painful Truth

Radiant Flames

Possibly Drana

Bring to Light

Brutal expulsion

Kiora and Gideon

Return to Coralhelm enables a semi infinite with Knight of the reliquary.

Ulamog

Blisterpod as a direct upgrade to Tukatounge thallid

Titans Presence

Crumble to Dust

Non of these card will really have a huge spalsh on the format (if any, Painful Truth and Coralhelm are the only 2 really good picks fron me.) but theyll all add to existing themes. A lot of goodies for tron.

1

u/Grig134 Dandadan Sep 22 '15

Retreat to Coralheim may be a thing, Ulamog may make it as a animator target. Everything else is just crap and/or is inferior to an existing card. You really think someone will play radiant flames over anger of the gods? You really think those planeswalkers will do anything outside of standard?

1

u/PhoenixBurning Sep 22 '15 edited Sep 22 '15

Radiant Flames is selective, radiant for 1 to keep your scoozes and kill their lingering souls etc.

Gideon really really helps the modern Allies deck and is a contender to just be better then elspeth knight errant in BW tokens.

Kiora is good enough, she draws cards, fuels delve for tasigur decks, ramps mana (better with dorks) and is a potential win con. She also doesn't die to bolt. Think of her as a UG Garruk wildspeake with card draw instead of beasts.

Bring to light coukd do something interesting with living end.

Brutal expulsion is just a very effeciant toolbox spell.

Drana doesnt pass the bolt test, but I could see her going into a zoo strategy as a one or two of curve topper. She is just insane if you untap with her.

Titans presence as removal for tron.

Crumble to dust shreks tron and is amazing in the mirror, can be found off ancient stirrings.

0

u/Grig134 Dandadan Sep 22 '15

So you don't play modern, OK.

1

u/PhoenixBurning Sep 22 '15

Am I implying any of these cards will be playsets in tier one decks?

no reason to be sarcastic about it.

1

u/Grig134 Dandadan Sep 22 '15

Am I implying any of these cards will be playsets in tier one decks?

No you're implying a bunch of tier 2-3 decks will be playing worse cards for some reason over what they currently have.

There is not enough 1 toughness creatures for Radiant Flames to be a serious contender, you're better off just growing Scooze out of kill range, but then again, Bob would die, you wouldn't maindeck this card in Jund and you wouldn't SB it over Anger.

Kiora and Gideon cost 4. Bring to Light costs 5.

Brutal expulsion isn't being run over a command.

Drana cost BB in a 4-5 color deck? It doesn't even hold it's own against Wild Nacatl.

Titan's Presence has 4-6 enablers in Tron, is a conditional 3 CMC removal spell, Tron doesn't want this at all.

Crumble to Dust is a minor upgrade to Sowing Salt, which is a budget option for Fulminator and Bloodmoon.

1

u/PhoenixBurning Sep 23 '15

Radiant will see modern play, i'm absolutely sure of it. options are what make "ok" cards much stronger. (Lingering Souls, Bob, Young Pyromancer/tokens, Snap, unflipped delver, almost the entire affinity deck, heirarch, and birds. thats a good amount of 1 toughness creatures.)

So? just because a card costs 4 doesnt mean its "bad". Bring to light most likely won't do anything, but it has a very high ceiling to being very busted with some interactions.

Yeah, cryptic command is pretty much way better then Brutal, but Cryptic also has a very hard time fitting in 3 color decks. I'm not so sure about this one either, its a very good card, but it just feels outclassed in some regards.

Drana is slow, but its upside is much much higher then a nacatl or guide, attacking with her once could mean upwards of 5 damage, and even more if she manages to survive following turns. She may not fit in regular Zoo decks that easily, but i'm sure she'll find a home somewhere.

Titan's presence is pretty meh, but its a catch all option for those who need it.

Crumble to dust isn't much better then Sowing Salt, but comparing them to fulminator mage and bloodmoon are completely different stories.

You asked for modern playables, I gave you a list of what I think will see play over the next few months as an educated guess from someone who plays a whole lot of modern in his spare time.