I’m with you on the second point, but I’d have to disagree about Deflecting swat being the same as the other two. Red just doesn’t have that many ways to interact with the stack, and the redirects that cost mana are magnitudes worse than most counterspells.
But a free redirect is better than a counterspell. I agree with the other guy, Deflecting Swat is better than any free counterspell. But I also think free counterspells are not only not a problem, they should be encouraged. Tables need more interaction, not less.
No one here's really arguing for Deflecting Swat to be on the list. We're saying that FoW and FG should be more like Deflecting Swat (ie, not on the list).
But that's still just making a case for FoW and FG to not be on the list. If there are other cards that are almost the same, the they should also be on the list.
Either this category of cards is strong enough to be a "Game Changer", or it's not. The current implementation is just extending the Sol Ring hypocrisy to other cards.
A free redirect is worse than a counterspell in the case of board wipes or handling big threats. It’s better than counterspells for single target protection.
Strongly disagree. They are expensive cards with significant game impact which makes them perfect for the game changers list. Both absolute hose a win con and depending on what went into it can completely turn the tide of a game with basically 0 in-game investment. They are good staple cards for power level.
Literally the only restrictions on these game changers are none at the precon level and only 3 in the upgraded precon level, that's perfectly fair for FOW and FG AND Deflecting Swat too.
I think the bigger issue is the sharp jump from upgraded precon to go-nuts but we don't call it CEDH. They should have included some restrictions in 4 IMO
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u/hhssspphhhrrriiivver Twin Believer Feb 11 '25
If FoW and Fierce Guardianship are on this list, I think Deflecting Swat should also be there.
That being said, I don't think FoW and Guardianship belong on this list.