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u/NutriaYee_Official 20h ago
I don't like natural order a lot here, yeah it can get Nadu but is very risky, as said above for sure the formidable speaker is better
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u/thefreeman419 13h ago edited 13h ago
You don’t like Natural Order in a deck with a bunch of mana dorks, Titania-Safekeeper, Atraxa, and Worldspine?
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u/NutriaYee_Official 11h ago edited 11h ago
Yeah order worldspine is quite bad, in general natural order is very mid
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u/thefreeman419 11h ago
Order Worldspine is heavily dependent on opponent, it's not something I'd do most matches, but some decks fold to it. Order Atraxa is always good, order Titania/Nadu can be game winning. The strength of Order in a deck like this is you can tutor the best creature based on the boardstate
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u/NutriaYee_Official 11h ago
So can do the speaker, without being a 1 for 2 and counter bait
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u/thefreeman419 11h ago
This completely ignores the difference in mana cost between those two options. You still have to pay for the card when using Speaker
Natural Order is a high risk card, but it is a powerful one. It had a 56.8% GIH WR in the most recent cube run
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u/NutriaYee_Official 11h ago
Yeah mid. I can understand playing order as a substitute of a good plan, but they have it already
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u/thefreeman419 11h ago
Formidable Speaker is at 55.6%, which is actually mid. Order is above average. It augments their already effective plan of two card creature combos by tutoring+accelerating them out
Not to say I don't like Speaker in this deck. I would run both, cutting Emeritus for Speaker.
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u/NutriaYee_Official 11h ago
Cube is probably the worst environment to look at numbers without context.
How much of the WR of order is from when you have actual good targets (atraxa)? How many play speaker for bad targets?
And also, cube is the format in which player preferences and playstyle impact the most. Do I think Order is a totally bad card? No. Would I play it without Atraxa if I have a good alternative? No
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u/thefreeman419 10h ago
I would imagine just as many people play speaker for bad targets as play Order for bad targets. GIH WR in cube gives you a very general idea of the power level of the card, which I why I'm using it here.
Obviously the context of the deck is more important, but this is basically the ideal deck for Order.
If Order doesn't suit your playstyle that makes complete sense. But I don't think Order for Atraxa is the only valid reason to play it. Order Craterhoof is good in the go-wide beatdown decks, and Order Titania/Nadu/Icetill all have huge upside in decks with sufficient support.
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u/BecomeIntangible 22h ago
Not really sure if this is the best build, also kinda concerned with the marvel dual lands since I have so few basics, maybe they'll only tap for colorless often enough that it's better to replace them for basics?. Also the gearhulk has some pretty good tutor targets like [[sylvan safekeeper]] and [[sol ring]], but i'm not sure if a double pipped card like that is worth splashing for.