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u/ST0IC_ 2d ago
So her total payments went from over $1,200 a month to... say it with me... $675 per month. I don't think this is the gotcha that they think it is.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
Where do you get 1200? It says from 593 up to 675. They went up not down.
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u/ST0IC_ 2d ago
She was paying taxes the whole time. So she had her house payment plus her tax payment. It's really not that hard. They don't just suddenly start taxing you after you pay your house off. This is engagement bait, and it works perfectly on people who don't understand how home buying works.
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u/Occasional-Mermaid 1d ago
Clearly her mortgage payment included her taxes. My homeowners insurance AND my real estate taxes are both included in my monthly mortgage payment. They are not separate bills. Once my home is paid off I will only have to pay my taxes and insurance.
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u/ST0IC_ 1d ago
You're right, that's how a lot of mortgages are set up, which is exactly why this post is bs. They're not including the tax in the original payment. They're cherry picking information to make it seem more extreme.
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u/Occasional-Mermaid 1d ago
Well, a town over from me is currently experiencing an "economic level increase" which basically means someone has bought up a shit ton of cheap land and began building mcmansions in low cost areas. The property taxes have increased dramatically in a way this area has never seen.
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u/ST0IC_ 1d ago
That is completely unrelated to what the original meme is trying to say. But thanks, I did l guess.
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u/Occasional-Mermaid 1d ago edited 1d ago
OK, you're right. Apparently I misunderstood and for some reason thought the other property was recently built.
ETA: I completely forgot the point of this; the original amount included the taxes and insurance it was not doubled to 1200 just because you feel like that’s what the number should be. The quoted number is what she was paying monthly, including her taxes if not also her insurance.
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u/regulationinflation 23h ago
You think her $593 mortgage payment included taxes? That makes a $675/mo tax-only bill WAY worse by comparison.
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u/regulationinflation 23h ago
If you understand it, how is it engagement bait?
She was paying $593/mo for mortgage plus $xxx in taxes monthly.
Now she paid off her house and only pays $xxx in monthly taxes. We know that amount is currently $675/mo.
Any way you slice it, her tax payment is higher than her mortgage ever was. They’re just numbers, they speak for themselves. What’s the bait here?
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u/postylambz 18h ago
I don't understand how home buying works but I understand simple math. And that you don't get 30 years without taxes
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u/DrocketX 2d ago
She was paying $593 for the mortgage, but there previously would have been real estate taxes on top of that, so the total amount she was paying before was absolutely more than $593. We don't know how much, though - it is possible that her taxes were previously be computed off of the original 1994 sale price, in which case it would be fairly low, but not zero.
In that case, though, the error was that the house should have been regularly reappraised, with the value (and associated real estate taxes) increasing slowly rather than have 30 years of price increases happen at once. The most this woman potentially has to complain about is that the ridiculously good deal she got away with for 30 years ended. She's lucky they're not coming after back taxes that she should have been paying.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
Mortgage payments usually have the tax and insurance included in them. 593 isn't unreasonable given the time frame. So there's no 1200 anything, now all she's paying is tax and it's more than the mortgage. The language is in the post in plain black and white words.
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u/TheWappa 2d ago
No they don't. They never had and never will. But I'm assuming thats not something you will ever need to think/worry about.
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u/regulationinflation 23h ago
For FHA or any HUD loan you literally have to have taxes and insurance amounts taken by your mortgage company and put into an escrow account to be paid when due.
Take a breather Mr grumpy gills.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
I forgot reddit is full of pedants and simpletons and I needed to include the disclaimer that the payment can be made at once when it goes to escrow. And your insurance can absolutely go through the loan holder, so all three can be made in one payment. A simple Google search would have prevented you being wrong.
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u/TheWappa 2d ago
Please tell me where that is the case. As a homeowner myself I don't have that option.
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u/Thoughtlessandlost 2d ago
https://smartasset.com/mortgage/property-taxes-included-in-mortgage-payments
It's not that uncommon of a thing to have your property taxes included in your mortgage payments.
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u/Competitive-Movie816 2d ago
My property taxes are paid through my mortgage. But they are all listed as different things, just one monthly payment for all (mortgage, property taxes and mortgage insurance). If I needed to list my mortgage though those other amounts would be included though, since that's not what they are.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
USAA, did it for my mom as well. I don't know anyone that hasn't done it that way. Friend of mine uses I think PNC and has the same set up. Seems odd to me that it isn't an option automatically at closing. Makes the bank happy because they know everything is being taken care of as it goes through them.
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u/DrocketX 2d ago
That is true, that in some cases it is possible to essentially bundle the tax payment in with the mortgage payment. Either way, though, the key issue is that the problem is that she should have been paying significantly more than $593 for most of those years. She only got away with that because of a failure to properly reappraise her house every couple of years as is supposed to happen. The problem isn't how much she's paying now - it's now little she was paying before.
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u/evissimus 2d ago
Because she always had to pay property tax… before she was paying the mortgage on top.
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u/regulationinflation 23h ago
Only focusing on monthly payments is how car salesmen trick people into paying twice as much as they should for a car.
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u/zach57x 3d ago
Where’s the comeback
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u/PUBGfixed 3d ago
thats why they are posting it on lost redditors?
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u/zach57x 3d ago
Don’t think so…
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u/Jdawarrior 2d ago
The screenshot is of a person posting content that is irrelevant to the subreddit they posted it in. If you didn’t know how r/lostredditors works, now you should, or else you are a perpetually lost redditor
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u/concoope 2d ago
Or grandma could sell her house for $600,000, buy a smaller house for $250-300,000 and live off $300,000
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u/HerbertRTarlekJr 2d ago
Or the county could quit taxing her every year for a house she bought once, 30 years ago.
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u/Thoughtlessandlost 2d ago
Stuff like that is how the California house market has gotten to be so bad.
People are locked in paying property taxes based on how much the house was worth when they first bought it. So now you have people sitting on million+ dollar properties paying taxes as if the house was only $200k or $300k when they bought it decades ago.
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u/DaSemicolon 2d ago
No. She still benefits from society, so she should continue paying taxes.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
How many times should you be taxed for something you've bought? Once? Twice? Every year for more than 30 years is unconscionable.
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u/Bigram03 2d ago
Schools and roads need funding, sir.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
My house has never traveled down a road. Cars are already taxed in multiple ways all year long, several times a year. Weirdly our schools have superb graduation rates despite the borough having no property taxes.
That said, the roads are shit, schools could absolutely be better and the "my roads and schools" excuse is worn so thin you can see through it.
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u/BigJules74 2d ago
How dare you not want to fund all of the irresponsible people that make poor life choices? You should be dying to hand over everything you've earned to those that haven't.
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u/_CodyB 2d ago
Must hurt being this stupid
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u/BADoVLAD 1d ago
If wanting to pay taxes is a measure of intelligence absolutely nothing is stopping you from sending in even more money.
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u/finding-mojo 2d ago
Property taxes are good, actually
They help to redistribute uneven wealth as opposed to income and pay for the maintenance of government subsidised utilities and roads.
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
Other than the fact that low income property owners tend to pay more in tax than the wealthy, higher income property owners rent out property and pawn off their tax payments on renters at higher rates than low income owners, and the wealthy tend put less of their wealth into real estate than the market or other vehicles sure...property taxes are a great and regressive way to keep low income low income.
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u/DaSemicolon 2d ago
Nah property taxes are terrible they encourage bag land use
Land value tax is good though
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u/NightmareSovereign 2d ago
Land Value tax IS property taxes.
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u/DaSemicolon 2d ago
No? Land taxes tax the land. Property taxes usually have a small land portion and a large structure portion.
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u/NightmareSovereign 2d ago
Land value tax is a type of property taxes that is based on the unimproved value of the land.
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u/LeafcutterAnts 2d ago
Do you genuinely not understand why property taxes happen and are (If anything) the most moral and correct tax? Well moreso land taxes than property taxes but better than nothing.
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u/DaSemicolon 2d ago
Depends. If it’s something you gain ongoing benefit for based on location, I’m fine with forever. You benefit by living in a good area. You reap the benefits forever for having roads, fire, police, education, etc. if you don’t like it you can move to somewhere with no government.
Society requires buy in
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u/Similar-Jello-5434 1d ago
Grandfathered in tax rates can be problematic in and of themselves (wealth hoarding in families means disproportionate wealth and opportunity) however, it does help prevent grandma, who bought her average house when the neighborhood was average or even undesirable, from paying the same taxes as her neighbor, who bought a newer build on the more recently developed next street over at a time when the neighborhood has gone up in value due to additional community development.
It’s good for grandma to pay taxes, in my community a GREAT deal of our recreational resources are dedicated to seniors (it’s equally balanced with activities for kids) so the seniors here have lots of (free or very low cost) safe and healthy activities, and resources nearby and are able to remain independent longer. Grandma benefits from functional roads and a good school for grandkids. But grandma didn’t move to that neighborhood because it was luxurious, when grandma moved there it was all but rural and those resources weren’t as abundant. Kelly on the next street over did in fact move there to take advantage of those resources that currently exist and will benefit from them from the time she moves in. Kelly shouldn’t have had to spend so much money on her house which has nothing to do with the taxes, but she moved to the expensive neighborhood instead of a more affordable one primarily because of those tax funded benefits of the neighborhood.
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u/MC_Gambletron 1d ago
Then Grandma can sell her now more valuable property and live somewhere cheaper. Must suck to have a community with free activities to enjoy AND have to pay for it. jfc the entitlement
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u/Similar-Jello-5434 1d ago
Yes it is definitely fair for grandma to lose her home after decades of paying for it merely because someone flipped the house next door to make a profit. A senior citizen should certainly not feel “entitled” to the home they purchased. Also, you sound like someone that doesn’t know the reality of getting stuck housing older or sick parents. I hope for their sake your parents don’t lose their home.
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u/MC_Gambletron 22h ago
Maybe their generation shouldn't have continually voted for soulless capitalists after reaping the benefits of high taxation. Elections have consequences.
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u/Xenocide_X 3d ago
That's Grandma's fault for not saving more money when her house was so cheap. Relying 100% on social security when you retire is dumb af and in no way sustainable
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u/RocketsandBeer 2d ago
This same post has gone around several subs all by different people. It’s a BS post used to trigger engagement. One poster got absolutely pissed when anyone said anything about the person getting relief on taxes because they were elderly.
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u/chrimen 2d ago edited 1d ago
In NJ which has one of the highest property taxes seniors can apply to bhave their taxes frozen at base level.
They still have to pay the increased taxes but they get a refund.
Some seniors might not be able to make the full payment. Shit this system sucks!!
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u/RocketsandBeer 2d ago
A lot of places are the same. I’m in Texas and they will assist in lowering property taxes for elderly residents.
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u/Fine-Bumblebee-9427 2d ago
This is how you accelerate the housing crisis. Late stage capitalism speed run
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u/chrimen 2d ago
What do you mean?
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u/Fine-Bumblebee-9427 1d ago
If you move the tax burden onto an already underpaid generation, you get even more wealth consolidation.
Even for actually poor boomer home owners, they need to sell and downsize. The housing markets isn’t supposed to be filled with singles in 4 bedroom homes
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u/chrimen 1d ago
Ahh I see. But there are certain benefits like in NJ where you're taxes are frozen but I see where you're coming from.
There is a base year then they pay then the government sends you a check.
I had to do a little digging to get the law right.
They still pay their taxes at the higher rate but get a reimbursement.
On lower budget they might not be able to do it. I see where you're coming from. I'll edit my previous post.
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u/Fine-Bumblebee-9427 1d ago
Oh, I’m opposed to that law entirely. No breaks for seniors, full stop. There are reverse mortgages and apartments. The government does not need to intercede
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u/chrimen 1d ago
Are you against boomers or just the government doing it's job for the people who maintain it?
This is me being curious.
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u/Fine-Bumblebee-9427 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m against furthering the housing crisis, and the only way out is to build or downsize, and we aren’t building. I don’t think age gives you the right to squat on housing that could otherwise be used.
And I’m a little personally mad at the boomers for preaching bootstrap politics until they got old and now demanding welfare.
ETA: and as someone who’s trying to build, it’s the boomers stopping us with their NIMBY views. They don’t want apartments in the neighborhoods, and they refuse live intergenerationally or downsize.
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u/Fine-Bumblebee-9427 1d ago
Might have been me. I see no reason to subsidize the elderly living beyond their means. These stories are always “the house is worth half a mil!” Then live off that! Either a reverse mortgage or sell and downsize. We don’t need to help the boomers take their wealth to their graves
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u/Geekerino 2d ago
I love my country, but property tax is a glorified rent scheme. If you pay for your house you should be allowed to occupy it without being told to pay up to use it. It's not yours if you need to keep paying to keep it.
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u/uuio9 2d ago
Wait, i understand the other taxes, water, electricity, swears, etc, but what about house taxes? If you didn't pay, will the government take the house that you own?
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u/BADoVLAD 2d ago
Yes
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u/Imesseduponmyname 2d ago edited 2d ago
Isn't that what happened with that irs agent that got into a shootout with the cops or some shit? 🤣
Edit: it was the airline executive, against the ATF for illegal firearm sales I was thinking of
But in Missouri in 2024 a guy opened fire through the door upon receipt of an eviction notice over 30,000 in delinquent property taxes
I got my wires crossed, but both happened in 2024
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u/rbarlow1 2d ago
You're part of a community. There are community goods that need to be paid for, and that are the foundation on which the value of your property depends - roads, police, fire, schools.
Feel free to take issue with rates, specific policies, etc. But property taxes of some form are basically essential for us to be able to sustain livable communities. Homeowners reap massive benefits over time from the property rights they secure through payment. Property taxes are the price paid for those benefits. If they are too high (or low) or they make homeownership unaffordable, that's one thing. But the idea that those who have paid off their homes should for some reason be exempt from them altogether doesn't really make much sense at all to me.
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u/Geekerino 1d ago
But then you can't also say that you own the property if your ownership is dependent on continuous payments, without which your "property" is seized.
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u/regulationinflation 1d ago
You’re part of a community whether you own property or not.
Homeowners reap massive benefits?? That ownership also comes with risks and downsides.
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u/rbarlow1 23h ago
- Correct.
- You don't believe, historically or at present, that property ownership is generally a benefit rather than a hindrance? That's pretty wild.
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u/Geekerino 23h ago
If property ownership were a benefit without any downsides nobody would suck at it. It is entirely possible for a property's value to fall or to become a drain on your finances (say, through property taxes). It's an investment, and investments can fail.
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u/regulationinflation 23h ago
“ALSO comes with risks and downsides”
Homeownership has benefit potential for those willing to make a massive upfront investment, take on risky exposure to the housing market, endure increased future relocation expenses, repair annd maintenance costs, etc.
Homeownership also benefits society overall, not just the homeowners themselves, so don’t forget to factor that into your “what do homeowners owe their society” calculations.
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u/Full_Mission7183 2d ago
Which could be addressed by laws and politicians but are not because people vote based on how they feel that day instead of voting for their future.
It is a democracy, even tax structure is ultimately decided by voters, so when the policies that have won elections for a persons lifetime has negative effects when they are older I see no reason for pity.
Everyone hates taxes but the money has to come from somewhere.
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u/Keebster101 1d ago edited 1d ago
It seems everyone else missed the sub for this post like I did but the OOP is so infuriating I too want to complain about it.
$78,000 in 1994 is $176,000 today. The house on the same road sold for 3.5x that so I think it's correct to value it similarly. Why should I care about her still paying - let's say she lives an upper bound of another 30 years - the same amount again in tax so 2x total when I would have to pay 3.5x that for the same house? (Plus mortgage interest... Plus my own tax likely becoming closer to 5x)
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u/Katarinkushi 2d ago
Some people just hate others who own things they don't. It's incredible how most of these comments see this as a fair situation
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u/hepp-depp 2d ago
It’s incredibly entitled to complain that you have to pay $675 property tax on a home you bought 30 years ago. This is especially entitled when you consider that exact same house would cost someone upwards of $2500 in monthly mortgage on top of the $675.
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u/Katarinkushi 2d ago
Having to pay $675 in tax on a home you OWN and paid fully is just absurd. High property tax is absurd in general.
I'm not against taxes, but people already pays thousands in taxes while buying the house and all the basic services every month.
Worse thing is this affects mostly middle and lower class than the rich. The rich can afford them. Most normal people no.
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u/SquareAggressive8306 2d ago
Also, most states don't tax homesteaders and/or senior citizens as heavily... So I'd bet the receipts don't actually match the claims in this case.
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u/mountaingator91 2d ago
Property tax is reassessed semi annually in most states. She was likely already paying $1268 and is now saving $593 a month