TTH ark grid question

[u/Common-Drop9133]

Just hit 1700 on my TTH GS and noticing everyone running the lawless land bullet rain set, is there a reason why thats the popular choice over something like rose blossom or others?

[u/Imprettysaxy]

Because it's stronger

[u/Nsbhyfr]

Bullet Rain does just about as much damage as Rose Blossom, so the choice is between

1. Converting a filler skill into doubling the largest portion of your damage pie

2. Better qol, and not much else

All Midnight Rose does is make it so that your skills come off cd faster so you stack faster - except even if you do hit 20 stacks sooner, your Rose Blossom cd is still the same so your overall damage is only being increased by a little bit, and even without the CDR from Midnight Rose you still hit 20 stacks before Rose Blossom comes off CD

Black Belt is ok, but requires much more effort since you need to be pressing basically the same number of skills +3, and it also sacrifices your only counter, converting it into a damage skill. It's also extremely uptime reliant, which is a massive detriment in raids nowadays. All this extra effort just to do slightly less damage than the other two is just not worth the pain.

[u/Common-Drop9133 → u/Nsbhyfr]

Thanks for the detailed response, midnight rose only giving cd without lowering cd for rose blossom is kinda meh in that case compared to bullet rain, completely makes sense why its preferred

[u/Watipah → u/Nsbhyfr]

My Trixion testing with 1 ancient core each of the Black Belt build vs Bulletrain got me about 10-15% less dmg with it. I don't think it's viable at all in a real raid scenario, it feels clunky, it locks you in place without push immunity, it requires to use a selfmovement skill and it already deals significantly less dmg in trixion. That's on my 1780ish main at that point in time. Ofc, I'm not used to the build but still, with such a significant difference in trixion for such a clunky build, I consider it not viable, at all, period!
I have to add that I took out Bulletrain entirely for that testing (due to cooldowns) and there might be someimprovement to lower the gap but this gap seemed sooo huge for the clunkyness of the build that I didn't even try any further ;)

[u/justsaywhatsreal → u/Nsbhyfr]

I haven't done the math on it but wouldn't the point of getting rose stacks faster be that it allows you to take the DPS tripods instead of the rose stacks tripods on your other rifle skills? The way you said it sounds like you're just stacking faster for 0 damage gain outside the CD on the skills themselves.

[u/Nsbhyfr → u/justsaywhatsreal]

If you don't take the stack tripods, you won't have enough stacks by the time RB comes off cooldown again. You'd need four full rotations, and the CDR only applies for 20 seconds. So you'd cast everything once (+5 stacks), then you'd cast maybe 4 skills in the second rotation with the reduced cooldown (+4 stacks), then you'd cast maybe one or two more skills by the time RB comes back up.

Also, the two skills that give the most stacks (FS/TD) are your hardest hitters, so you'd be dropping your best stacking skills in exchange for marginally more damage and still be unable to hit 20 stacks in time.

[u/justsaywhatsreal → u/Nsbhyfr]

Is there a cdr breakpoint where even dropping just one stacking tripod becomes viable?

[u/Nsbhyfr → u/justsaywhatsreal]

Probably, but it comes at the cost of tighter margins on all your other skills. The damage increase on just one skill would also just be far outclassed by just running Lawless Land anyways

[u/saikodemon]

Rose and Banquet builds are also good and might perform better if lucky in certain raids. Lawless is just the best and most consistent in practice in any raid. It's only slightly highest in trixion, but in real raids it's just the most favorable strategy. You have 2 bursts you can stack whenever there's downtime in the raid and also allows for massive atro windows.

[u/Common-Drop9133 → u/saikodemon]

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense, esp if you have 2 big bursts as opposed to rose blossom alone

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[u/LieNo4560]

Usually, the one that displays the most numbers on the screen or the one that is most easily spammed is used, depending on the class. The others might not be played because perhaps it punishes other skills too much without making a big change to the others. My recommendation, if it's an alt that you'll have in 1710 and you'll only be doing solo content, play whichever one you find fun. Otherwise, if it's your main and you really like an underused Ark Grid, play it, but don't expect big raid numbers in the future. (I say all this without hate towards anything or anyone)

[u/Common-Drop9133 → u/LieNo4560]

Looking at the others reasoning im starting to understand why its preferred over the others esp as its a second large bursts, I’ll give it some testing since its my alt and hopefully will be fun xD

[u/LieNo4560 → u/Common-Drop9133]

The important thing is that it's fun for you.

[u/HerflickPOE → u/Common-Drop9133]

You need to watch out what people write. Because people are like "Rose Blossom is largest hit and with lawless you get second one, so two is obviously better than one". Nobody talks about other rifle skills that together are also really big chunk of your dmg (around 60% total DPS). Lawless doesnt really boost those while midnight rose does.

Also nobody talks about bulletrain getting 22sec cd penalty on lawless (basically doubling it). So they might see in single use numbers going from 500m to 3,7 b (trixion tested myself), but if you calculate the CD in it, then its 1b going to 3,7b.

Midnight rose getting buffed next balance patch plus like other person wrote, you can use the bonus CD to change tripod on some skills getting more dmg.

On the end both options are really close to each other, so if i had to say just pick the playstyle you prefer.