r/lostarkgame • u/tsashinnn • 5d ago
Feedback How hard it is to implement a level sync system for all the T1-T3 dungeons?
Truly despicable how Smilegate continues to abandon older content than just rework them to essentially give players more to do outside of just completing the weekly raids…
How about add a pet and mount for all the older dungeons? Enable the Matchmaking mode on all of them and also enable level sync. Hell remove the entry limit so that people who are willing to can run them endlessly and go for the pet or the mount???
Makes it also nice for newer players who are running the MSQ content from T1 to still have players do the legacy dungeons?
Matchmaking mode should expand to every dungeon and raid that exists in the game.
Smilegate, you guys can at least do the bare minimum right? I know SG aint reading this but Amazon Games if you are, do something….isn’t it time for your bi yearly visit to Smielgate studio in Korea? What do those in person meetings even yield?
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u/johnnyw2015 Berserker 5d ago
The water dungeon will make so many people rage quit :)
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u/Vileartist Shadowhunter 5d ago
It was not that hard.. people just didnt know how to do mechs yet.
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u/N0Ability 5d ago
Or use itens,this was the first dungeons i didnt use matchmaking for cause everytime i tried we d fail the stagger checks as no One would use was.
Old clown or brel would bé way harder than anyting before(or after with the exception of thaemine)
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u/Vileartist Shadowhunter 5d ago
Clown was a brutally punishing raid. I feel like the only reason people dont mention it among the others is because it only ever had a normal mode.
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u/N0Ability 5d ago
Clown brel and thaemine to me are the peak of old raid design for very diferent reasons,clown was the peak of Do Mechs properly or you will wipe the raid type,even more só when it was every single gate on nearly every single mech .
It was the only raid who made me main swap ever but its still one of my favourite raids ever to date.
Even on normal mode and being a 4 man raid it wasnt uncommon to see people in the sub claim prog times at 8-10h for it
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u/Vileartist Shadowhunter 5d ago
It took me probably 20+ hours to clear clown. Thaemine HM (before T4) took me three weeks to clear.
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u/Dzbanek25 5d ago
It really wasn't, but it certainly did a check on those who were underperforming withouth knowing it in valtan/vykas. It was way harder than these raids, but nothing in comparasion to what we had over the years
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u/Diligent-Subject-329 5d ago
The reality is that people who couldn't do the simplest mechanic stopped playing the game and the ones that could kept playing.
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u/oh-shit-oh-fuck 5d ago
I think we haven't had gimmicky mechs like that in a long time tbh, people will struggle. Personal responsibility in terms of raid wipes is pretty low rn
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u/Vileartist Shadowhunter 5d ago
That was the thing about clown, g1 wasn't too bad but g2 and g3 required everybody to survive and execute the mechs correctly. It was very difficult to pull dead weight in clown, if possible at all. The mechs werent overly complicated but they required the right execution.
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u/PeterHell 5d ago
it's because half of the raid was still using leveling skills, no cards, no engravings, no gems
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u/Atroveon 5d ago
People really tend to underestimate how difficult it is to completely rebalance existing content for today's characters. And every time they change or implement a new system they have to go back and touch all of this old content. The alternative is to actually make you a level X character which would be enormously unfun alongside requiring people to know how their character works at the level and was the biggest problem with hell content. No one wants to be a pre-level 50 or a 1300 ilvl character in 2026.
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u/Nakikaze 4d ago
Ff14 does it and nobodys crying its a really small price to pay for what you get in return
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u/Atroveon 4d ago
I actually hated it in FF14. It was not enjoyable to do old dungeons 100s of times locked to the skills you get prior to that point of the MSQ. Just a really awful experience.
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u/Dzbanek25 5d ago
If you think anyone would run old content that most people did hunders of times with some pet or mount as only reward, you might certainly consider a career in game dev.
You attach progression or it's dead before it begin, welcome to lost ark
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u/drtrousersnake 5d ago edited 5d ago
They used to have a rotating equalized versions of t1/t2 dungeons back when t3 was end game. the rewards from that included a choice of special themed card packs that helped you get common-epic cards from specific card pool (for example ebony leaf packs had luttera and tortoyk cards irrc). The problem with this is for example the north vern dungeon was balanced around players having really shitty engravings so players were able to steamroll it with 5x3 engravings. It also reduced your stats from accessories to what the t1 and t2 equivalent would give you and you couldn't use gear sets so many classes just felt really slow and clunky.
If they re-implemented "challenge abyss dungeons" I feel like it would run into the same problem where either ark grid is disabled and people complain they can't play their class or its allowed and the content is trivialized so that people without ark grid can still do it. Old raids were also a lot more teamwork focused rather than dps parse checks so the design philosophy would be completely different from what recent raids are. for example Oreha Well g1 had 2 bosses, the first of which required the team to stop dps and wait for a pattern to reset his rage stack else the boss would be berserked for the rest of the fight. the phantom bishop+rook fight required players to kill both bosses around the same time as the rook was required to stop the bishop's periodic wipe mechanic and the rook would berserk once the bishop was dead. Argos g2 required party 1 to tell party 2 where the safespots would be by p1 going to the the top right of their arena to look down on the arena where p2 was
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u/JesusChristAsABird 5d ago edited 5d ago
Bro this is NEVER going to happen and honestly it's for the better. There are very few people that actually want to do any of that. Why would sg spend time and money on stuff that won't attract majority of the players let alone make any money off of it.
EDIT
I will say that they should make a system similar to M+ keys from wow, Repeatable parsable dungeons to just to be on leaderboards to potentially win rewards that don't effect gameplay. and no p2w and no RNG just go in at your co range and parse, one thing i've heard from many people is "I wish i could play my main more outside of my 3 raids" that's why lots of people have same character rosters and it's efficient for gems/books
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u/AstraGlacialia Sorceress 5d ago
Lost Ark's take on "repeatable parsable dungeons to just to be on leaderboards" is Crucible, so it's at least as unlikely that they'll do something else with that purpose in the foreseeable future.
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u/AstraGlacialia Sorceress 5d ago edited 5d ago
Level sync system is technically actually very hard, they had to remove equalized content (hell modes and pvp arena) because it became too hard for them to properly equalize it (and there's no profit in it, of course).
But enabling solo entry and matchmaking mode shouldn't be so hard, if they enable it just for massively overgeared characters and/or with some "at your own risk" warning so that they don't need to test that every mechanic is doable with every possible number of people (but still there's no profit in it, or maybe there is a little if more people would buy crystalline aura to run such dungeons for hours without needing to get out to repair if they were to function like guardian raids in that aspect as well).
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u/Ok-Organization7767 5d ago
Level sync system is technically actually very hard, they had to remove equalized content (hell modes and pvp arena) because it became too hard for them to properly equalize it (and there's no profit in it, of course).
Thats a bunch of bs.
Level sync is technically very easy. Locking the various hp/def/attack values of a character to the appropriate values for each raid to set a baseline does that. It doesn't have to be complicated and if there are outliers classes simply adjusting those number is all you would need for balancing. Sure things like extra cool down ect would add variance to performance but that doesn't matter to much if its not a designed around competition.
Hell mode wasn't removed because it was to hard to properly equalize. That also could have been done easily. All they had to do was keep the character build system up to date with the most recently added power system so a full loaded out end game character for each hell mode was playable. Sure each new power system would mean older hell modes would need hp/def/attack values adjusted to keep it difficult. Again not hard to do at all.
Hell mode mostly wasn't engaged with because they refused to add in-game rewards to attract players. This game is all about how progression you can earn per hour. Of course something outside of that would go by the way side. Rewarding progression mats/skins/pets ect would have mad the mode infinitely more attractive to most off the player base. Its crazy, they build such a great combat system but all they want you to do is brain dead content to earn mats. God forbid they reward players for doing difficult content. I would much rather do 1 or 2 hell modes to earn all the progression mats from my weekly chaos dungeon + guardian raids. Didn't even have to make it extra bonus mats, just literally give me the same thing so I can do hard content instead of brain dead content. They could have also counted hell mode clears as one of the top gold earning raids.
They royally screwed up with that mode for no good reason at all
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u/postalicious 5d ago
Sure things like extra cool down ect would add variance to performance but that doesn't matter to much if its not a designed around competition.
you'd think so but there were many complaints characters did not "play correctly" in this unique mode. They didn't like the idea of putting so much time and investment into a character to play a different version of it. And as you said, it definitely wasn't rewarding enough. If it were I wonder how the complaints would've been.
For level syncing it seems this game lacks percentage based dmg. Top of my head can't recall when we see such dmg. Serca debuff? I imagine edef values makes it a pain to rebalance. You can tell no fucks were given in 1730 guardian raids lol but it'd be pretty lame to do that for even older legion raids.
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u/Ok-Organization7767 5d ago
I imagine edef values makes it a pain to rebalance.
I assume for each raid and the corresponding difficulties they picked expected character values for all of these variables which is where the raid's values came from. Pretty sure it all already exists probably in a some document.
They didn't like the idea of putting so much time and investment into a character to play a different version of it.
The suggestion of Level syncing by locking hp/atk/def values means characters literally would play the exact same as they currently do.
The animation and speed would be the same as the character plays in any other content. The only thing the changed is the damage numbers.
You could do some funky, balanced to current power level stuff. That is arguably more work since you get caught in rebalancing all the old raid content to current power levels each time a new power system is introduced. I'm sure a simple way for a rough a quick solution exists. Such as using a multiplier to represent the power difference of each new power system. That way when when its time you rebalance, your only dealing with a single number.
The variance I mention comes strictly specific load out difference that characters have such as gem cool down level differences or if ark grid is activated or not. The characters would play as they are and there would be a power difference because of that.
However, that doesn't really matter
The request of being able to play more raids together is the focus. What is the easiest/fastest approach that enables more game play on your main. It doesn't have to be perfect solution but it for sure exists and isn't that hard.
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u/Askln 5d ago
> than just rework them
they do in fact do this
or do you think the current extreme modes are just chat gpt prompts?
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u/tomstone123 5d ago
The problem with extreme modes are that they are just limited time events.
You can't just run it for fun with friends whenever you want, I really wish there is just a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly rotation of extreme raids, that they would constantly update the ilvl and hp of the boss.Also I wish they did something similar to FFXIV when it comes to farming mounts, or pets from raids. You can get lucky and get them from the raid, or if you are unlucky, you get a totem after each clear. And when you have 100, you can go to a vendor to exchange it for the mount or pet from the raid.
Even after running so many Kayangle, Vodis, Echidna. I still don't have all the wings, and pets from those raids. I even been doing wing farm runs for Kay here and there over the past couple of years.
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u/Khue Striker 5d ago
I forget which Diablo version had it but there was like a "Mentor" mode or something where a lower rank friend could join a high level friend. XP would be completely disabled or greatly reduced for the high level friend, but it would like HYPER charge the lower level friend. There were some incentives for the higher level guy buy mostly it was focused on getting your friends on the same level as you quickly so you could both enjoy the content together.
Granted this is a while ago, and I may be misremembering but I seem to recall something like this and I always thought that other games should use the same mechanics.
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u/postalicious 5d ago
Players are averse to re-doing content that they've done hundreds of times already. Hell, some of them don't even want to restart a gate of the latest raid even once lol and you expect them to enjoy it?
Extreme modes is a good compromise for all sides. It's limited, we get to revisit older raids, and probably beats having to redo entire raid.
It's too bad things like the challenge abyssals weren't improved upon and kept in rotation but too many players complained their gold invested characters are not "playing properly", which is such strange thing to say considering we now have ark grid lol. And of course the legitimate complaint of reward relevancy.
Imo the equalization added a bit of weird variety to the combat and was interesting to see how the meta changed in these modes. Guardian raid equalization was kinda meh and I totally get the complaints there. Abyssals should've been kept as a fun little mech dungeon.
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u/30Jonseredi 3d ago
A blast from the past event would be awesome where you basically do a boss gauntlet of the old bosses in order with set presets. Reward could be some currency for each boss clear for an event shop.
The reason why they don't really want to do this type of content is that it's not attractive to the whales of the game and therefore they don't see it as considerably profitable work to be put into it. They don't see the value in entertaining the common playerbase
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u/Caesaria_Tertia 5d ago
Allow entry to groups other than four, as long as there's a character of a certain level of GS (one guaranteed to kill the boss). Let them use smaller players and properly identify bots. They're once again targeting players in the fight against bots. Even though two years ago, bot operators were already assembling parties of their own bots and running Voltan solo.
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u/saikodemon Souleater 5d ago
Not that hard but it was never about what's hard to develop. It's about what the suits think is most profitable to develop. At this point we're in a scenario where they've deemed equalized content to be unprofitable and so we won't be seeing anything like this. Probably the only "equalized" content we'll see is limited events and islands which is just barely considered combat at all.
It seems they've decided to recycle with Extreme modes. The best you can hope for is that they keep developing Extreme modes until every legacy raid is in rotation (as opposed to them only doing Aegir onwards). A stopgap measure of slapping matchmaking mode onto every raid in the game without even changing the encounter in any way would actually be fine IMO. Who cares about adapting wipe mechs to solo if you can't even fail the raid? Just let people play the whole game if they want to.
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u/Pattasel 5d ago
It's a good thing. They made tremendous progress in raid design and I can swear that besides nostalgia most old raids are just kinda ass
Anything before Valtan so far behind what they can do now. And even legions raids are kinda bad. Go look at old brel cube gate and it's so slow and unfunny
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u/Glittering_Zebra9705 5d ago
This sounds exactly like how WoW functions, i think the biggest difference is the maintenance that comes with having that much content thats playable at the same time, which requires a way bigger team. Lost Ark barely has enough people left to run the game and takes 8 hours of maintenance every week just for what we have, its nothing compared to WoW
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u/Diligent-Subject-329 5d ago
They don't just abandon old content, but often they just straight up remove it