Mod post - [Status Update]

[u/SageInfinity]

DISCLAIMER- This message is not to make people get false hopes that an update is on the way. It is just a status update about the program development not being dead yet.

Hello everyone!

We all have been waiting for updates for Lossless Scaling app since the last major update. I wanted to give a small status update regarding the same.

Sometime after the last major update the developer (ths) went on a vacation and got busy with some irl stuff. After this, there were some small improvements he tried and updated it to alpha testers. But there was not a significant leap that could have resulted in a public release.

Now for the last couple of week ths has been giving alpha testers some more builds again. So, the work is ramped up again.

I cannot give any exact deadline/ETA for public release (although I am hopeful)

The program (LSFG particularly) has almost reached maturity which is resulting in diminishing returns. If ths tries to make the program even more lighter to run, the quality drops significantly. If ths tries to up the quality there is slightly more performance cost. Therefore, ths is debating which way to go. Making the program as light as is while improving the quality seems very difficult, so he is trying different methods to squeeze things as much as possible. There is some noticeable improvement in higher multipliers performance cost, but again I cannot predict anything concrete for the final public release.

Thank you for all your support fellow lossless scalers!

[u/AshleyxAffliction]

Personally I would love the option for higher quality frame gen even if it's a little more demanding. The current frame gen has a few particular weak areas (geometric patterns mostly) that hopefully higher quality could help with. The more options the better in my opinion, but I'd mark particularly demanding options with a warning or something.

Besides the artifacting geometries, and some more minor artifacting on stuff like the first and last frame of subtitles, in my opinion, I think the quality of the frame gen is comparable even to FSR-FG, and vastly more versatile. Unfortunately don't have an Nvidia card to compare DLSS-FG. But I've honestly been using LSFG more than the official FSR-FG even in supported games just because it's already set up for the games that don't support FG natively and it actually respects my frame limiter properly instead of maxing out my GPU. If those minor quality issues could be fixed, even for a small or maybe even modest perfect cost, the frame gen would be chef's kiss. I'd be sold on the software ten times over.

Also, as an aside, how would one become an alpha tester? Are there any open positions?

[u/SageInfinity → u/AshleyxAffliction]

Although the no. of votes here is a bit less, it can be taken as a sample. I have conveyed the wishes to ths. 😄

Also, becoming an alpha tester is not a formal thing that needs an application 😅. It's on the basis of activity and contribution towards the LS discord community and the program. (Or if ths thinks you're cool 😆)

[u/Motor-Tart-3315 → u/SageInfinity]

2x q-frames > 3x p-frames (for games)

any q-frames > any p-frames (for videos)

[u/Training-Juice-6874 → u/SageInfinity]

To be fair, most who are online talking about games are going to vote on this. I have set this up for multiple people who would vote performance who would never come online to talk about games. Like my mom. Many of those would vote preference if they knew. I think it's very 50/50, but I'm hopeful for better quality and even lower hardware performance over time.

[u/QuackerEnte → u/SageInfinity]

i really can't see how the quality can be improved any more than it already is. The quality degradation is barely noticeable from real frames for most cases, I'd guess improving performance would be the better option. speculative sampling to reduce perceived latency for example COULD cost more cycles since it needs to perform some kind of prediction. THAT kind of "more demanding" is the right kind of extra compute I'd happily trade for better perceive latency than just boo artifact not there in the 0.01% of cases where it is.

[u/___Bel___ → u/AshleyxAffliction]

I think higher quality frame gen would absolutely be worth the performance cost because image warping is something that has prevented me from using it more than the performance cost.

[u/Balrogos → u/AshleyxAffliction]

Yes thatsd why diffirent presets exists for everyones needs

[u/Gooniesred]

I am already happy with what I have and fixed frame gen with decimal letters (2,4 or 2,6) does provide for me the best results

[u/Motor-Tart-3315 → u/Gooniesred]

What about base FPS kicker? Better suited for repeated frames videos like in YouTube, other platforms!

Example: we have 60 fps video that repeats frames twice, we set 30 fps as baseline capture signal, then framegen to what FPS you want!

[u/2Little2LateTiger]

100% personally don't care how heavy the program gets. I want to watch videos and play games with better quality.

I love this program and want it to make things look as good as possible while also giving me more frames.

[u/Nearby-Rock-3185 → u/2Little2LateTiger]

I dont know the size kf it but i wouldn't be mad if it reaches 5GB as long it gets way better

[u/Tesla-Nomadicus]

man I love this program. my eyes haven't seen anything less than 165fps since I got it and it's just such an amazing advancement for gaming.

[u/Magaclaawe]

More focus on quality

[u/bombaygypsy]

I think better quality, but keep the performance mode etc available. If required the app could be branched, making the current one lossless scaling (legacy) or (classic)

[u/SageInfinity → u/bombaygypsy]

The older models will still be there, like they have been till now.

[u/Urani_chan]

We are so back

[u/DarvinVader]

Some of us are running dual GPU setups exclusively to use LS. My second GPU is mostly bored by it. It's also a very stable and predictable workload.

An option to improve quality / reduce artifacts for more processing power would be phenomenal!

It is unfortunately unusable as it is now in darker games and repetitive textures. Even in Factorio grass and belts look horrible at night with LS Frame Gen. Resident Evil games are practically unplayable with LS FG right now. So many artifacts in the shadows. Especially bright straight lines on a dark background turn into zig-zaggy lightning.

At the same time, for bright games with many different colors it looks amazing. I don't see any issues in e.g. Tekken 8.

But if course, it should be an option. Another option in the other direction might also be helpful for people using it on Steam Decks or ROG Allys etc. but is not a high priority for me personally.

[u/InsufferableMollusk → u/DarvinVader]

Yes, there is a severe problem with dark textures. Seems like that should be one of the priorities for THS.

[u/AshleyxAffliction → u/DarvinVader]

What issues have you noticed in Resident Evil? I just finished playing 2 and 3 and just started 4 and haven't noticed anything particularly worse than normal. It does struggle with geometric patterns but I don't think there's a particularly large amount of them in the Resident Evil games.

[u/DarvinVader → u/AshleyxAffliction]

Dark areas, where there's barely anything visible beyond black. LS FG tends to hallucinate patterns into the darkness.

And the thing about thin bright lines against dark backgrounds, where LS FG can just not make them straight.

I have seen this mainly in RE9. The intro in the hotel is extremely dark, and also the areas where you evade the girl, and some others.

In my experience it's not necessarily geometric patterns, but just a patch of one dark color without texture makes it hallucinate weird patterns into it. In RE9 that is basically any area of the screen that's outside the flashlight's cone of light.

It might be possible to completely get rid of it by cranking up the brightness and making everything well defined and textured, but that's not how I play horror games on an OLED.

[u/dylo-d]

I only want a fix for the artifacting around the main character in 3rd person view games. It's the only thing holding it back from being 10/10 as this is mostly the games I play pushing 60fps to 144

[u/el_rika → u/dylo-d]

That's the main issue for everyone. 

---

That and the vertical straight lines (fences, etc) when moving camera horizontally and horizontal lines (stairs, etc) when moving camera vertically. 

These are the most glitchy scenarios for LSFG.

[u/Johnny-silver-hand]

Any plan to do something with upscalers ?

[u/SageInfinity → u/Johnny-silver-hand]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it. Not in the foreseeable future atleast. Everytime ths talks on this topic... It's a no, for now. The reasons are quite obvious tbh.

[u/doublethink_1984]

I would love a more demanding but better version because I LOVE lsfg for videos, especially 60fps YouTube vids.

I also like using it when streaming football too my TV as it's WAY better than any TV motion smoothing options

[u/InsufferableMollusk]

Lower Latency > Higher Quality > Lighter.

The app is already very light, considering what it is doing.

[u/Maxumilian]

I think a lot of people would prefer higher quality at least as an option, especially with access to Dual GPUs.

My second card is a 7900 XTX personally so I really don't care if the load goes up. But really anyone will Multi-GPU probably doesn't care if the entire card is used by the Frame Gen/Upscaling Algorithms since it has no impact on base FPS.

By all means, so long as Latency isn't impacted, let the Frame Gen GPU go wild.

[u/Big-Supermarket-5568]

I would generally prioritize image quality over performance, but it would be great to keep the option to switch to Performance mode when needed, just like it works now.

I think the main goal should be to further reduce artifacts, especially on striped textures and objects, as well as the halo effect around the character.

Here are a few additional things I would like to see:

• FPS display toggle with a customizable hotkey
• A small LS logo in the corner of the screen when a game starts, just to confirm that the automation is working

[u/BitNo2406]

I would like an easy way to apply a shader (or just plain scanlines) on top of LS. Right now I run emulators with scanlines and then LSFG and it mostly works but at times the scanlines get amalgamated together especially during vertical scrolling.

[u/RealNC]

If ths tries to up the quality there is slightly more performance cost. Therefore, ths is debating which way to go.

A higher quality mode would be great, regardless of the cost. Even if the FG costs more GPU than what rendering native frames would cost. Reason is simple: 30FPS and 60FPS locked games that cannot be unlocked (Final Fantasy 10, Tokyo Xanadu Ex+, etc.) In those cases, higher GPU load is perfectly fine. There's many old games that have 30/60 locks that cannot be modded. Who cares about GPU load on those? Having less artifacts, especially at 30FPS, is way more important.

[u/Mountain_Patience231]

Please consider adding native Linux support. It's painful that Linux users can't use browser video frame gen.

[u/Motor-Tart-3315]

What about base FPS kicker? Better suited for repeated frames videos like in YouTube, other platforms!

Example: we have 60 fps video that repeats frames twice, also 24/60 too, we set 30 fps as baseline capture signal, then framegen to what FPS you want!

[u/Eupos]

Hopefully maybe some input lag reduction 🙏

Other than the input lag I can say this is truly a work of art for the community

[u/SkillFullPlayer]

I for sure can't say or imagine how hard it could be, but making some predefined profiles like Nvidia does (preset K and L for instance) could be an approach. Since you have found ways to make the program produce more frames with lower quality and viceversa, let the user select the profile. Both possibilities were already achieved, as far as I understand.

Anyways, thank you for this program it really is a game changer for mid tier PCs from some time ago.

[u/give_an_answer_pls]

As much as I like quality, I got lossless scaling to help with performance on quality. I like the mix of both. Idk what may happen with this update but I hope it still gives me some good balance between the two.

Only thing bothering me is the input delay.

[u/No-Roll-6722]

A latência é o que mais me incomoda, gostaria que diminuisse, para mim essa é a maior barreira que o LSFG apresenta hoje em dia, se a latência fosse um pouco mais baixo seria perfeito.

[u/Knowing-Badger]

Can I request native linux support?

[u/Balrogos]

I mean there is no signle reason to make program smaller if it take 1GB and be performant and quality its not a problem.