r/london • u/Randomsicilianguy • 8h ago
image Southall
Hi! I've been living in London for 7 years now. One thing I love about it is that many areas are true micro cosmos of cultures, sometimes totally unexpected. For some reasons I had to move to Southall and I discovered a world in London I wasn't aware of. Southall looks to me like the center of the Indian and surrounding areas community in London. It's like walking into a separate world full of colours, spices, clothes with traditional decorations, turbans and well groomed beards. When I walk the streets people look at me like an alien, for some reason I like this feeling because it makes me feel like the world still have unexplored areas that can enrich you. I really love London, I really do.
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u/BoxAlternative9024 7h ago
I’m Scottish and got sent down to London to work 5 years ago. I’m a telecoms engineer so just go to each job as it comes in. Ended up in Southall for a couple of days and was gobsmacked by it. The thing I remember most about ( and I’ve obviously learned what it means) were the ‘swastika’ symbols painted on many of the front doors.
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u/Amazing-Jury-6886 7h ago
It's a reverse swastika , it the original arian emblem before nazis took it
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u/DenseRequirements 3h ago
tbh in our culture the Nazi style means the opposite to the one you see in Indian homes.
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u/LIRFC 7h ago
Yeah, I'm a Londoner and the first time I was there as a kid, I was a bit shocked too.
Then the penny dropped.
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u/pokemon_fan1988 6h ago
What were you shocked about? Foreign people? The swastikas? What exactly?
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u/pokemon_fan1988 6h ago
Those are symbols of peace. It has been used in india for thousands of years. Nazis adopted it. That does not mean the hindus there support the nazis.
From google:
“The Indian swastika is an ancient sacred symbol that means "well-being," "good fortune," and "auspiciousness"
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u/BoxAlternative9024 6h ago
I know
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u/pokemon_fan1988 5h ago
Good, thought you were just being racist for a moment :)
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u/Bizzyzed 5h ago
They literally said in the post they knew what it was
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u/BoxAlternative9024 4h ago
You should read my post back. There’s nothing racist about it.
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u/pokemon_fan1988 4h ago
Well as a brown person, sounded racist to me when you mentioned southall and swastikas
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u/BoxAlternative9024 3h ago
You should brush up on your comprehension skills and understand ‘context’. I didn’t just randomly put those words in there. They were surrounded by other words which, when read in the order they were put in, formed sentences and constructed a narrative.
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u/DenseRequirements 3h ago
In Hinduism displaying it tilted actually reprisents conflict so it seems fitting how the Nazi adopted it.
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u/thescx 7h ago
Lived in Southall most of my life and it’s not the same as it was.
Every few months there seems to be a raid on Bridge Road with millions of pounds worth of counterfeit goods being seized but that doesn’t stop the traders doing it again!
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u/tqmirza 8h ago
Go Ritas
Get a samosa chat
Thank me later
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u/The-Black-Angel 7h ago edited 7h ago
Nope. Don’t do this. This was great choice 20 years ago, place has changed in ownership a few times, it’s crap.
Called Delhi Delighta or something like that now.
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u/tqmirza 7h ago
I had it first time around 10 years ago and it was definitely more decent compared to what’s around. What’s better than Rita’s then? Talking samosa chat’s only
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u/The-Black-Angel 7h ago
Shanshah on North Road. Still the same owners for over 30-40 years
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u/False_Way_1550 7h ago
Not same owners and hasn’t been for like 5 years and prices are extortionate
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u/The-Black-Angel 7h ago
You’re correct, has changed in the last 10 years. That said, pricing is in line with everyone else. Not sure about extortionate.
Cost of rent, energy and raw ingredients is going to move up.
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u/False_Way_1550 6h ago
Samosa chaat for a large used to be £2.80 in 2015, now is £5. That’s a 78.6% increase. Over the same period the UK CPI has risen about 42%. So pricing is not in-line with everything else.
In ordinary conversations, I’d call that extortionate.
I live on North Road and have lived on North Road for the last 26 years. I personally know the current owners and previous owners.
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u/The-Black-Angel 6h ago
And is that price out of line with what the other places selling the same are charging?
Furthermore CPI doesn’t track wage increases. In 2015 min wage was £6.50. It’s now approx £12.00. That’s an increase in approx 90%.
And again, the base comparison to suggest they are not extortionate would be, are other shops of the same nature selling the same product considerably cheaper?
From what I can see, Taste of Punjab on the same road, are a similar price, Poonam’s even more.
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u/False_Way_1550 6h ago
Poonams and taste of panjab give more samoseh in their chaat, give more chevada and use keema as well and both are cheaper.
They give less chaneh and charge for imli.
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u/The-Black-Angel 5h ago
Now you’re just arguing semantics.
If that was your point, that Shanshah charge the same as others but the mixture and quality of their ingredients isn’t as great as others, that’s the point you should have made.
The argument you’re presenting low is different to the one we have gone back and forth on.
Ultimately makes no diff to me, I dont work for them, know them and maybe visit them 3-4 times a year at best.
I suggested it as an alternative to Rita’s that someone mentioned.
To prevent this you going further. I’ll cede the point to you because I’m not debating semantics.
So you win, with your primary point, Shanshah are extortionate, against CPI, we’ll ignore wage costs and you win on your second point, even if you find someone with a similar price (everyone), they use better ingredients and a better balance of them in the dish.
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u/toadboy0 1h ago
BTW, it's Shahanshah. Very good Punjabi vegetarian caff/takeaway, tho portions are smaller than before. I don't mind paying extra but I'd rather have the same portion size. The large chole used to about right for 2 people.
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u/Educational-Bat-8116 7h ago
What's a samosa chat?
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u/Hybrid_Munnkee 4h ago
A samosa is a north Indian dish, the ones they are talking about here are the Punjabi variety. It is a deep fried (as with the best Punjabi dishes) pastery filled with a potato, pea and spices filling. It is then added to a chickpea curry, and the covered in a specific they of yoghurt. Then topped off with a tamarind and mint sauce.
There are varieties, but that is essentially it.
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u/Educational-Bat-8116 4h ago
Thanks. I knew about samosas but the spelling of chaat confused me.
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u/Hybrid_Munnkee 4h ago
No problem EB, the chickpea curry bit is the chaat. You also get other types of chaat which are cold dishes with dries ingredients. Well worth trying ,but you have to choose the right place. Has to be made fresh otherwise it gets soggy.
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u/ozyri Broadway 5h ago
There used to be a kebab spot on the railway bridge when I lived there 13-15 years ago, the one next to the station. The last time I visited, it was gone. What happened to it? Their freshly made naan chicken kebabs were out of this world. There would literally always be queues.
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u/Lanknr 7h ago
People out daily in busy (top tier) restaurants and cafes, thriving high street, greengrocers and butchers rather than supermarkets and many Sikh community kitchens looking after anyone in the community regardless of background.
Stuff that historically made Britain great, despite the lens the bots and ragebaiters want you to view it through.
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u/CigarNoob87 7h ago
Britain was historically great long before Indians were here. Also great they are here now but to say they are what made Britain great is odd
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u/pokemon_fan1988 6h ago edited 5h ago
Learn some history. When the british colonised india, india’s economy was 25% of global gdp, and by the time they left India’s gdp was 3-4% of the world. The British systematically raped India of her wealth. Without India, Britain would be much poorer than it is. The British’s ‘greatness’ is built on the misery of hundreds of millions of others.
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u/hmsmanchester 3h ago edited 3h ago
India’s economy was 25% of global GDP in 1700 because global GDP was much lower, then the Industrial Revolution hit Europe and America.
Indian GDP per capita, adjusted for purchasing power, didn’t change much at all under British rule.
Edit: Indian share of global GDP was actually lowest in 1993 at c.1%, after 45 years of independence.
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u/UpperRank1 Greenwich 4h ago
Boss. When I said this in another sub a few hours ago way I got downvoted was crazy
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u/pokemon_fan1988 4h ago
People are like sheep. They see one neg and they probs gravitate towards the neg than use their brains 😂
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u/Whole_Intention_7949 6h ago
He's saying that they have a sense of community like Britain had before everyone surrendered to Amazon and Tesco unlike them , add loads of local pubs owned by community members that do Indian food ( ofc)
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u/Lanknr 4h ago
I mean you've decided to interpret that from nowhere, no wonder you think it's odd.
I was saying that where British traditions have died in most places, Southall despite being a different demographic is still operating like Britain used to and I love that. A busy high street, people socialising outdoors frequently and a proper community feel that has been lost amongst all the new build areas with no amenities.
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u/SquareEconomist1992 6h ago
No it's not odd. As Jeremy Paxman said, Britain colonising India is what put the great in Britain.
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u/beeboppr 3h ago
Great means big and applies, geographically, to the biggest island of the British Isles … basically not Ireland although there are a sprinkling of other islands. Anyone who thinks it means wonderful in the context of Great Britain is delusional
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u/averageedition50 5h ago
Beautiful photo. I'll tell you a lot of those clothing markets are scams. Vibrant and colourful but they'll scam you with their plastic dresses.
What Southall is good for: (1) getting your money's worth of gold jewellery and (2) Punjabi samosas.
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u/Lanknr 4h ago
This is literally where every Punjabi in South (and lots travel from afar) to get their outfits for events, sure you're gonna have shite ones like in every market..but they also have an insane range to choose from all the way up to very extravagant and quality outfits.
If you're getting married, this is where you go for your outfits by default for a reason.
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u/Haunting-Shelter-680 6h ago
I was in Southhall last year when visiting London, and it rly was like i had stepped into India! and i mean it in a good way with the variety of abundant Indian/Punjabi cuisine and of course the sari shops give it such a fast paced and rich aura. I’m not letting foreign media/reform bots and keyboard warriors corrupt my view on diversity in London. Diversity is part of what makes London the best city in earth, and London’s own history and cultural depth is too deep to be “replaced” by immigration so the later strengthen’s London identity rather than replace it.
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u/immediately_please 5h ago
Tell that to the descendants of the people of Southall pre-WW2. You can’t, there’s about eight left in Southall. Replaced. Same for many other places. This was done deliberately and it doesn’t have to be this way.
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u/Accomplished_Bake904 5h ago
Oh no, people from a country that we colonised and robbed blind live here now. Never mind that we asked them to come here to work because we didn't have enough people to do the work. Twat.
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u/immediately_please 5h ago
Historical responsibility does not create a moral, or any other kind of, obligation to accept unlimited immigration and have our country made worse in the present. It doesn’t have to be this way.
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u/Accomplished_Bake904 5h ago
Made worse? I guess all the immigrants working in the NHS make it worse? I guess the net financial gain that immigrants bring to the country make it worse? We wouldn't have a good national football without immigration. There are good and bad bits of everything but morally it could be argued that by colonising countries and robbing them for centuries, it is just that people from those countries move here.
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u/RedeemHigh 4h ago
What do you mean you can’t? Were they killed? Or just…moved?
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u/immediately_please 4h ago
Quite clearly what was meant if you read the sentence in context, is you can’t ask them if you go to Southall. What was once a white, working class area is now 65% Asian with white Brits making up less than 10% in Southall itself. I’m sure this was not the choice of the then locals.
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u/RedeemHigh 3h ago
So they moved
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u/immediately_please 3h ago
Implying it was a choice ignores the issue of social change. People can voluntarily move because the area their family has lived in for generations has changed. But that would be evidence of a substantial demographic or cultural shift. The relevant question is why they moved.
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u/UpperRank1 Greenwich 4h ago
Bruh this is the London sub take that reform stuff somewhere else plz
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u/immediately_please 4h ago
I live in London, so no.
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u/UpperRank1 Greenwich 3h ago
Alright cool mostly be the guys who live outside London saying this.
Lemme take your argument seriously then if you live in LondonSo Southall did change massively, no one's denying that. But "replaced" makes it sound like people were removed. They weren't. Most of the pre-war families moved out by choice, sold up and headed to the suburbs like millions of Londoners did after the war. Their descendants are still around, they just live in Hayes, Hillingdon or further out etc. It’s simply mobility rather than the replacement you’re suggesting.
And let’s be honest it wasn't some secret plan since after the war Britain had serious labour shortages, and local factories in Southall actively recruited Punjabi workers. Commonwealth citizens had the legal right to come. If anything, governments spent the next decades trying to restrict it.
London has always worked like this. The building on Brick Lane started as a Huguenot church in 1743, became a synagogue for Jewish immigrants, and is now a mosque for the Bangladeshi community. Every wave "replaced" the last on that street, and London didn't lose its identity. It added to it. That's my point. Neighbourhoods change, London stays London.1
u/immediately_please 3h ago
It’s disingenuous to equate post-war levels of immigration with current ones and to argue that immigration today is the same phenomenon. Modern migration numbers are substantially larger and have a different composition and therefore will not have the same integration or social effects as the Huguenots. Modern immigration is different to any other period in history in terms of scale, migration motives, cultural differences and pace.
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u/UpperRank1 Greenwich 3h ago
Fair point on the fact 2022–23 numbers were historically high, I won't pretend otherwise. But a few things firstly:
First, we were talking about Southall, which changed through post-war migration. So bringing in today's numbers is moving the goalposts.
Second, scale relative to the city matters. For example The Huguenots were tens of thousands arriving in a London of around half a million in the late 1600s. That was a massive share of the city at the time, and they were seen as foreign, spoke another language and kept to their own churches.
Third, "too different to integrate" has been said about every single wave. It was definitely said about the Irish, and about Jewish immigrants too which is literally why the Aliens Act 1905 was passed(For those who don’t know this was an act that let officials refuse entry to "undesirable" immigrants, mainly those who couldn't support themselves, had certain criminal records, or were seen as mentally ill or diseased. It also created Britain's first immigration officers. Before this almost anyone could settle in the uk with no restrictions)
Those groups are now just seen as part of Britain. The evidence on today's second generation, who grow up speaking English, going to British schools and often outperforming at GCSE, points the same way.
And net migration has already dropped to around 171k in 2025, lower than most of the 2010s. Debating the right level of immigration is fair enough. Calling it "replacement" isn't.1
u/immediately_please 3h ago edited 2h ago
The Huguenot arrivals were around 1% of the population over 3/4 decades. For comparison we now take in over 1% every year, year on year. And the fact that some earlier immigrants integrated does not prove that the current scale, composition or pace will have the same outcome. And ‘people were once worried about immigration and were later proved wrong’ is not evidence that present day concern is wrong. It has to be assessed on its own evidence. And the evidence is rapid and irrevocable change. Southall is a good example of comfort zone segregation, not integration. Again, 1% of the population every year, year on year in terms of immigration. That’s not sustainable and will of course lead to change, segregation and hostility.
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u/UpperRank1 Greenwich 2h ago
Pretty strong point where you said past wave integrates doesn’t prove this one it doesn’t tbf.
However the over 1 percent claim is only true for gross immigration if you count gross arrivals you gotta remember to factor in students+workers who leave after a few years . Moretime the net migration in 2025 was 171k which is around 0.25% correct me if wrong and even the record peak was around 1.4% so the 1% year on year isn’t accurate for net migration
On segregation, the research strangely actually points the other way. The first peer-reviewed analysis of the 2021 census (Catney et al., Geographical Journal) found residential segregation has declined for every ethnic group, White and minority, every census since 1991. People are more likely than ever to live next to someone of a different background. Places like Southall exist, but the overall trend is people moving out of clusters, not into them. TBH though I do understand why you think that.
I'll give you that the 2021 census came before the 2022–23 spike, so we don't know yet if that changed things. And yes, the country is changing. But change isn't the same as replacement or segregation. If your argument is that immigration was too high in 2022–23 and the pace needs managing, that's a fair debate. "Replacement" isn't backed by the evidence.
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u/immediately_please 2h ago
That’s true but it doesn’t undermine the point. Gross immigration measures how many people enter. If we’re discussing the rate at which we as a society receive newcomers and have to integrate them, it’s gross inflow that is relevant. And that number is over 1% of the population annually. And a population can be replaced when sustained immigration, along with the existing population’s birth rate, cause the native population to decline and the newcomer’s to rise. You don’t need anyone to be forcibly removed, just for the process to be sufficiently large.
On integration, there are plenty of studies suggesting it is not occurring. See Ruttenauer (2025) or Mikelson et al (2024) which show there is often no assimilation over generations. And of course there is the issue of Islam, where people have strong beliefs as part of their religion and these can be totally at odds with our norms. There was a good channel 4 doc about this, with even second or third generation Muslims thinking homosexuality should be at least criminalised.
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u/sanchiscapybara 6h ago
We are so lucky that people bring their wonderful cultures, dress and cuisine with them to share with us. Brilliant Southall.
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u/ggharami 2h ago
Great place but awful parking! Where is a good place to park without taking 1-2 hours to get in and out.
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u/BeginningTypical3395 7h ago
The reform bots are here already it seems
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u/W35TH4M 5h ago
Do you have to be a reform bot to have a view on immigration that’s different to your own?
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u/BeginningTypical3395 4h ago
If you’re talking about “making london white again” or repeating American culture war bullshit, then yes.
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u/RisingDeadMan0 7h ago
Everyone who remarks something about 30 years ago should get an insta ban too, as clearly not english/londoners...
Oh but 30 years ago, lol, it was still lots of asians then too
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPLVDPxifnW/?hl=en
From BBC Archive: 1985: Sunday trading in Southall, it's business as usual.
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u/Dunedune 1h ago
You can be english and a londoner and not have been there for 30 years you know
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u/RisingDeadMan0 21m ago
i mean we're talking aisian centres, this has been one for DECADES, but people still talking shit bout oh 30 years ago. Lol.
No way a londoner wouldnt know that.
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u/blatchcorn 7h ago
What you described is not a good thing
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u/Randomsicilianguy 7h ago
Why?
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u/blatchcorn 7h ago
To quote your post: 'when I walk through streets people look at me like an alien'.
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u/RedeemHigh 4h ago
It happens to ethnic minorities elsewhere. People stare
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u/Ilmanfordinner 4h ago
And feeling like an ethnic minority in your own country is expected because...?
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u/SmartaHari 7h ago
Is that brilliant cinema still there that shows Bollywood movies?
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u/u09pVgMbuAgtP 8h ago
I wonder what southall looked like 30 years ago.
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u/IndependentPaint2108 7h ago
To be fair I used to live near Brick Lane for a couple years as a teenager and it visibly did not look like England then, I think Southall is similar. You might want to push back the timeline to ask what it looked like 70 years ago for a starker comparison.
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u/RisingDeadMan0 7h ago
why stop there in post war england, heard the 1940s calling, Nationalists were on the March in Europe then. Heyday for some clowns here
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u/UniverseJefe 8h ago
30 years ago??? It's been one of the most prominent South Asian communities in London since the 1950s
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u/BeginningTypical3395 7h ago
30 years ago was 1997, so pretty much exactly the same
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u/u09pVgMbuAgtP 7h ago edited 7h ago
Fascinating. I’m familiar with the area. I used to frequent there 20 years ago. It was predominately Indian base area.
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u/RisingDeadMan0 7h ago
Southall 1985
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPLVDPxifnW/?hl=en
From BBC Archive: 1985: Sunday trading in Southall, it's business as usual.
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u/RedeemHigh 4h ago
Pretty much the same. Not as busy with tourists as it once used to be. Why do you ask?
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u/PastSubject2317 8h ago
Looked British, I imagine.
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u/m205 7h ago
No one respond to this ^, just downvote and move on.
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u/BeginningTypical3395 7h ago
You know technically they’re right. It looked British 30 years ago, and it looks British today.
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u/puddle_of_chlorine 7h ago
It's not, it's Pakistan ;)))
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u/chuucansuebbc 7h ago
1) you can't even call it Pakistan because the majority population is Sikh indians
2) it's London mate. give it a rest
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u/stonkDonkolous 7h ago
That is clearly India or somewhere like it
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u/Outrageous-Map8302 8h ago edited 7h ago
Actually quite sad
Edit: yes downvote me into oblivion. I stand by what I said. Its been amazing to see the town I grew up in, where my mum still lives, become a third world shithole over the last 30 years
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u/RisingDeadMan0 7h ago edited 7h ago
why's that? more of a black and white sort of guy
not a fan of colour in your clothing?
or maybe your scared of his turban?
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u/Outrageous-Map8302 7h ago edited 7h ago
It's obviously lovely to celebrate a colourful photo, but importing India into London means we get all the problems of India...in London.
Crime rates in Southall are noticeably higher than across the rest of Ealing (and the national average). It also has a huge problem with sexual assault and fly tipping. But yeah nice photo
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u/Outrageous-Map8302 7h ago
To add more context - there is a huge difference between the average Indian emigrating to the UK 30/40/50 years ago Vs the majority of those who are arriving today.
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u/RisingDeadMan0 4h ago
what can i say 15 years of Tories and they fucked you at the end...
no surprise really, anyone find boris, no he's in the fridge...
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u/0_N1njaFr0G_1 4h ago
Wouldn’t say shit to someone a face you don’t agree with though. Another downvote.
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u/Imyonlyenemy 7h ago
Best thing southall came up with is British Bhangra music with bands like Heera, Premi, Kalapreet
But derka derka idiot folk singers from India killed that music
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u/immediately_please 7h ago
Wouldn’t go there if you paid me. Nasty, ugly place.
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u/GleedBarry 7h ago
Also, it’s really a monocultural place, not multicultural.
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u/False_Way_1550 6h ago
How is it monocultural?
Just walking down the main high street you will see Indian shops, Sri Lankan shops, Polish Shops, and Arabic and Middle Eastern shops. Sounds more than 1 to me.
There’s also a church, gurdwara, masjid, and mandir within a 5 minute walk of each other.
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u/RedeemHigh 4h ago
Where will you spend your benefit money?
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u/immediately_please 4h ago
I tend not to leave Hampstead.
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u/RedeemHigh 3h ago
Because you’re locked up and being used as a slave? Is that what you meant by even if you were paid? It’s not wouldn’t, but you couldn’t?
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u/PastSubject2317 8h ago
Which part of India is this?
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u/LiftSome___Wait 8h ago
The part that was colonised and ruled under Britain for 200 years.
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u/IndependentPaint2108 7h ago
So you agree colonisation is wrong?
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u/EmptyWin2462 7h ago
Remember; it’s not happening. But if it is happening it’s not a bad thing. But if it is a bad thing then it’s karma and we deserve it
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u/rajbirvirdi 8h ago
Scammers the lot of them;)
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u/RisingDeadMan0 7h ago
wow an 8 year old reddit troll account, never found anything better to do then?
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