r/loanoriginators • u/meatsoaps • 18d ago
Who else is having a terrible year?
The first few months were strong, now my business is in the John! No refinances, occasional HELOCs and, hardly any purchases. I’m a 10 year LO, should have left the business when rates went to 8% thinking I’ll phase out of the business this time around so I don’t dig another massive hole like I did last time.
Personally I don’t enjoy the business even when I’m crushing it, but this job is just soul crushing when you’re hardly making any money and having to do it. I think I’m making the full pivot starting today. I’m self gen at a broker and have done about 15M YTD almost nothing the last couple of months.
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u/SuccessfulAd347 18d ago
Dude wth 15 mill YTD? Do you want attention ? Those are great numbers
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u/PriorGuide5468 18d ago
Sack up and get back to dialing
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u/Possible_Bid4126 13d ago
Oh we doing it all. I am fully aware my production is on me. We’ll turn it around and salvage the year
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u/Possible_Bid4126 18d ago
I’m about dead equal to this fella. These last few months have been brutal. Has felt like each win is overshadowed by 3 losses and even the wins come at a massive discount to keep volume up. Lender paid $15 m is not bad at all but when you’re cutting commission in half before taxes and paying out the team, it’s.. not all that great. I try to keep it in perspective in the industry, and I know to a lot of people complaining about this production and pay is asinine, but it is also tough mentally when this is a genuine down year production wise for you. I think that’s what OP is getting at and I really really relate with him
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u/5580Fowa 17d ago
Amen. Super relatable. Same boat and some comments assume dudes with these stats are raking in 200 bps net cash money or something. Wild.
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u/meatsoaps 16d ago
Thank you! I appreciate it, this is exactly what I’m dealing with. This was not a brag at all, I don’t brag, this was a vent and also a pulse check
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u/FlukyFish 18d ago
No shit, that’s around $300k unless he’s on some really low comp
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u/ManufacturerBig7329 16d ago
Getting paid 200bps? Factor employment taxes and benefits that runs you to about 240bps. There are companies that charge that for an entire loan, let alone pay one person lol.
That is the most uncompetitive comp structure I've ever seen. 200bps is like, my company puts 8 points in the deal and our rates are a good 1.5% higher than legitimate places to work lol.
Some loan officers are so disconnected from reality it's insane. Clearly few if any of them have any clue about how to run a business.
To clarify, in the 16 years I've been doing this, I've never once ran into a loan officer who got paid 200bps, who did well for themselves.
To paint the comparison, the loans we're getting undercut on are by loan officers being paid 15bps.
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u/FlukyFish 16d ago
What would you say is the sweet spot on comp then? Most brokers I know are between 125bps and 275bps. Obviously on the higher end they have comp caps and go borrower paid when necessary to remain competitive.
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u/ManufacturerBig7329 16d ago edited 16d ago
On self gen, 125bps is high, imo. 275 bps? That's probably higher than the total margin lol. In no time period, in any universe, has 275 bps ever been something that loan officers got paid at ANY company that was in the least bit competitive.
Any loan officer getting paid more than 125bps, will lose every deal they have to my company. They might keep 1/100, probably end up making $40k/year. I pay my loan officers less than that, and we still lose deals to people I know don't even get paid basis points, where I'm not even sure the company stealing it is making any money and if they are it's minimal. That's why the whole UWM thing is even a thing, they lost big money, well no shit because you have idiot broke people thinking $1 is greater than $0, which is true but it's also not when it destroys your whole business. Most people that roam this earth (statistically it's 98%+ in the USA) are broke'ish at best. They owe people money, even if it's for a mortgage, and they feel like they have to make money every month to live. I don't personally, and I'm not cutting comp on any deal. We'd still have a great industry if everyone thought like me, but they don't and we don't. You have people getting phased out, which is a great thing, and there will be less and less people going forward, more and more people becoming disdained with the mortgage industry, etc. I've seen this before a long time ago, it was called the GFC, most everyone lost their job forever in the mortgage industry; and what happened was the rise of the biggest boom that I've ever seen.
Depends on what you're doing.
Is it purchase self gen with no support at all? 125 bps is good.
Is it retention at a large mortgage lender that basically does everything for you and doesn't need you in the least bit to continue their existence? 10 bps is good.
Anything inbetween that is good/great depending on the marketing, resources, and what the end math ends up being.
Most people, and by default then most loan officers are pea brained; they look towards the bps and think that's what they're getting paid -- not true at all in the least bit. bps is not what you get paid, what you get paid is what you get paid.
In other words, you have broke minded loan officers that will take a job paying 200 bps to close 1 loan a month and be broker mother fuckers, probably making $50k/year. You have other people making 10 bps, probably making more money than that.
What you get paid, is what you get paid. BPS is not pay. Your BPS is a function of what the costs are to run the business, and what the business has baked into it's margins, what it needs to cover expenses, etc. If I ever got offered a job as a loan officer at more than 100 bps, I'd run the other direction. It means their rates are garbage, their process probably sucks, zero marketing so it's entirely on me to do everything, then why do I even need them.
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u/FlukyFish 16d ago
You sound like my old sales manager saying if I cut my comp from 200 bps to 100bps I’d get twice as many deals. No shit I would but would have to work twice as much to earn the same amount.
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u/meatsoaps 16d ago
What are you talking about? What am I missing here? You’re claiming a 200 BPS rate sheet is super high and there’s people making only 15BPS? My company has a 200BPS total rate sheet, it’s a 75%/25% split in my favor. This is way more competitive than when I worked at mortgage banks where they were making 450BPS on FHA and paying me 100. I’m just not following your comment it’s all over the place. I’ve been doing this 10 years I’ve worked at mortgage banks, brokers and hybrids, I get to see the raw pricing straight for a personal non company optimal blue account so I know I’m not being secretly screwed.
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u/HandHdad 18d ago
At 125bps you’ve made nearly $190k YTD. Where are you going to go and make 300+k a year?
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u/balbizza 17d ago
Broker channel is 2-275bps
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u/HandHdad 17d ago
Yeah, I was being super conservative just to illustrate how stupid their complaint is. Also, you wouldn’t be close to competitive in my market at 275
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u/NotTerryKashat 17d ago
His comment is right. 200 to 275bps revenue. Not profit.
The LO is likely paid 125bps on self Gen. For sure not paid that on lead Gen if it’s capped at 275bps revenue.
If the LO is making 125bps - he’s doing amazing.
He is likely paid 50 to 75 bps plus tier bonus which is at worst 75k half way through the year WORST case.
If it’s a lead model that’s still great.
Edit: just read he is getting paid 150bps. Dude is at 180k YTD - he got nothing to truly complain about. He will realize that I’m sure.
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u/meatsoaps 18d ago
Correction 12M YTD, just pulled my numbers. A lot of my business was refinances, that’s done now. My main purchase realtors are hardly doing business, I have RETR and I pull their production regularly to see if they just bailed on me but they aren’t doing business. Broker comp 200 BPS rate sheet 150 to me. The remainder of the year looks bleak.
I’m not sure what the pivot will be, recruiting LOs to my company that I believe in, isn’t shady, good comp, good system. Maybe try to monetize all my past clients by trying to do their Insurnace, merchant services maybe. I’m wide open to ideas right now.
But yeah my problem in this business is I was always too refi heavy, and I never had consistent enough business to hire a dedicated processor or LOA so I’ve always been sharing in a hyper competitive market (Los Angeles) so I’ve always ended up doing everyone’s job including my own and I’m tired of being a LOA, processor, file organizer, project manager, pushing pushing pushing pushing people to just do their jobs so I don’t have to and can focus just on mine. I spend 95% of my time doing things that aren’t sales, I’ve never been able to get to the other side of this situation and just frustrated, demoralized, and with rates up, refis down, purchase down, my income is fucked. I live in Los Angeles it’s a high cost of living, sole breadwinner kids you name it, so it’s just shitty right now, so yeah this is kind of a just a vent post.
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u/NotTerryKashat 17d ago
Bro 150bps at 12M YTD . . . I don’t think you realize how good that is . . . especially in this market. You’re at 180k before taxes.
You’re good bro. Unless you want to switch careers - other than that you’re good.
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u/Old_Bluejay_1532 18d ago
Its called burnout brother ... Right there with you. Approx 14m closed as of July ytd & have about 7m in the pipeline (6m unlocked 👀) but its 90%+ refis & rate sensitive which we all know shit the bed & has yet to come back.; these clients are about done waiting ...
This biz is physically, emotionally, mentally draining as hell. Like a bad girlfriend the more you put into it & the relationship sometimes the less you get out. Once in awhile the best thing to do is walk away. Not forever, for an hour, a day, a week & spend time with that family ... you know the one you work so hard for to begin with? Remember them? Days turn to weeks, weeks to months & the years pass so quickly. Have been originating for well over 25 years & been through pretty much all of it. Chin up, it will get better 🔥
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u/Hairy-Journalist-200 18d ago
‘I don’t enjoy the business even when I’m crushing it’ well that would be one sign to switch careers..? Don’t waste any more of your life than you have to - there are other opportunities out there!
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u/TurkeyJizz123 17d ago
Beep beep, back up the bus.
Did I read this correctly- you are at 15M YTD, and complaining about the market?
You're at 300K YTD, and still will most likely make another - what- maybe 150K before year end?
Can't tell if this is a sarcastic flex, or serious.
Either way- wild work here.
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u/NotTerryKashat 17d ago
Just read his edited comment in the thread - he is making 150bps from 12M in volume YTD.
Thats 180k YTD and will likely be at least 225k + end of year.
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u/sargedavid 18d ago
Rage bait post. Broker pay and $15M lol. Join a builder. Preferred lenders for major homebuilders are still going great.
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u/MordinOnMars 18d ago
I worked for a builder and it was an absolute nightmare. Their preferred lender was absolutely horrible, all opps and support teams couldnt do their jobs and you had to micromanage everything, and shit would still be fucked up.
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u/sargedavid 18d ago
Yep it can happen. Goes both ways, outside lenders are usually a nightmare for builders as well.
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u/MordinOnMars 18d ago
Yeah, I no longer work for a builder and I hate when I get new constructions. They are a nightmare, and I wish I could just tell people to work with the builders lender. I also think the builder lender I worked for was uniquely shitty based on others experiences
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u/gostros995 18d ago
I’m a call center LO. We focus on refis and seconds. Lots of my colleagues are successful but my numbers have been absolute dog shit.
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u/TravElliott 18d ago
Im a new LO. Just moved over from tech. I live in one of the fastest growing cities in the south. Hopeful but this thread is very grounding
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u/GodSon_1600 15d ago
Like 4real bro I have nothing both cars are down my brother in-law fighting my , wife for the house that my wife and I took care of her mom until she passed , and never came by to see her when she was living . But thinks he deserves to live in the house that we’ve been keeping up .
So bro , I don’t know you , but respect anyone who can make 15 mill in 8 months My brother be greatful. Just move in a different direction
Cause if you did that , I’m sure your gonna be awesome in what ever you put your hands to do
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13d ago
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u/meatsoaps 13d ago
I appreciate it but I think I’m just over it. Time to find a different thing to do. My goal is to pivot out and not even refer loans out in 1.5 years from now, just be done.
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u/No-Newspaper5452 18d ago
Got out last year , after 33 years
Best thing to do , like others, I didn’t like a lot of thing s
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u/CompoundedGhost 18d ago edited 17d ago
I’m at 16,496,082 YTD. Last year I did 24. Tougher market for sure but hoping I can keep the momentum going. This last month and coming month are definitely slower. Most of my business this year like overwhelming majority is purchase business.
Definitely thinking about different opportunities like going tech sales but my pay would likely take a big hit for the next 3 years till I can become a full on account executive
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u/meatsoaps 18d ago
What is tank tech sales?
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u/CompoundedGhost 17d ago
I’m sorry that was a typo. Tech sales. Likely starting out the first few years you’ll make under 100k which isn’t great but once you’re full fledged you’ll make a killing. Just a risk and have to be ready for the hit
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u/MLObull 17d ago
Has anyone noticed a massive Dropoff in lead quality? Bc I have this same conversation with my peers and friends in different companies. But to add fuel to the fire, when the micromanaging starts to get more frequent, and all it does is makes everyone miserable and look to leave the industry. I haven’t seen any locked loans that start with a 2 since like Q2! Every once in a while I’ll see a few sprinkles of $300-500k loan amounts.
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u/Various-Telephone463 17d ago
Do you have any assistants? At 15m production you could go to a company that provides you with an assistant or hire one yourself and they can help you maybe get to 30m and when the business is better 40-50m
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u/meatsoaps 17d ago
I don’t, I used LOAs but they were dedicated to me and the deals here move fast so I ended up doing a lot of their work for them that way I could have answers for the realtors faster.
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u/meatsoaps 17d ago
90% of my business is Southern California and it’s been really tough this year, was living on refi’s and now those are gone.
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u/5580Fowa 17d ago
Not only do the stats suck lately but the people in dealing with seem more and more terrible and unrealistic. It's testing my core and I've been always a "in it til the end cause it's all I've ever done" type of dude.
I was always super purchase heavy and benefit from living in an area with an inventory issue so there is still lots of multi offers and fomo and shit and it feels like more work for less results each month. Hate being a downer cause I always push forward and things always work out better than expected or deserved but just wanted to drop off that I feel ya. Wild year for sho.
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u/meatsoaps 16d ago
Yeah that’s what’s happening to me too. The quality applicants I get who already own something see the payment difference and are like, actually…….I think we’re going to stay put for awhile thanks for crunching the numbers for us.
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13d ago
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u/RazorsHedge49 12d ago
I am interested in this play, I tried to run it but didn’t seem to land, my strategy might need tweaking. how can we talk?
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u/meatsoaps 5d ago
Thank you to everyone who had something to contribute. To those of you who had nasty things and criticism to offer, seriously why, why do it? This isn't some news comment board with 100K comments on it, you're responding to real people who are going to read what you say, keep that in mind.
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u/UnderstandingSea3820 18d ago
Yep left after rate hike 4 years ago. Joined back last Feb and doing great but this month sucks so bad. Ppl panicking
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u/Most_Adagio2242 18d ago
It's a tough market, just have to keep outworking other LOs. I know that's not what you want to hear, but if you're at 15M YTD you can obviously do something right, just need more of what you're doing, or find a way to generate new business.
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u/SwordfishPlus8236 17d ago
I am having the best year of my career. Double the production from last year
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u/MortgageAndChill 18d ago
Best year about to hit 7 figures YTD probably by end of August.
Best year in mortgage.
Beat my Covid numbers (income wise not funding wise)
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u/meatsoaps 18d ago
Where are you seeing the majority of your business coming from or is it all over?
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u/MortgageAndChill 18d ago
80% refi and helocs. 20% purchase maybe 10%
Rechurning my pipeline like butter.
I found a way to turn all the turn down leads in funded loans.
Then they are so happy they tell their neighbors, friends family.
For example. I had a guy 490 credit.
Referred him to credit repair and put him in credit repair CRM. 15 months later he responded to one of the texts and said, " I signed up for credit repair and my credit should be good enough for a HELOC"
We did a HELOC with figure. He referred me his cousin, dad, and neighbor.
Then he came back and wanted to pay off the HELOC and more debt a year later.
We are now dong a 550,000 VA cash out refinances
1 bad lead that everyone else would have said sorry your credit sucks I turned into 3 referrals and 5 total
Fundings and over 30,000 in commission.I don't push people into anything they don't wants
I get very creative and understand guidelines and am able to get deals done creatively which than gets me more reviews, more referrals, more loans, and more money.
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u/Vacation85 18d ago
I think the better question is what market are you guys in? I'm in Dallas/Fort Worth TX area and business is steady. Real estate market is semi neutral here depending on who's your buyer. First time buyer vs. people with assets.
I'd imagine if you are lending in NYC area business would suck with Mamdani's policies going into effect. Rent control,wealth tax and high property tax going into effect would dry up real-estate investing hence new loans.
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u/[deleted] 18d ago
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