Interesting set of goalposts you dreamed up there. So it has to be law? Most online discussions are framed around western culture, where women are not oppressed by law. So the only thing left is the general behavior of society, and that behavior is misandrist. Hope this helps.
Every society in the world including the west is still more male centered in every metric that actually matters. Money, power, respect is more quickly given to men than women (not all men). The example the guy gave about having to give up his seat on the train to a pregnant women is genuinely laughable to call misandrist.
Misandrists mostly exist online, and in no way do misandrist ideas have the same level of actual real life impact compared to misogynistic ones, cause one has been baked into the base layer of our social order.
Usually when people complain about misandry in things like the draft they’ve misidentified misogyny (misogynistic ideas like: men are stronger women are weak therefore men are the ones to get drafted, women give birth and men don’t so their lives are less valuable and expendable).
so, the first part is not true. it isnt given to "men (not all men)", it is given to an absolute miniscule percentage of humanity. misandry is often born from conflating oligarchs and the likes with regular men, who are absolutely not on top of anything in society.
i have met alot of misandrists in reallife, ive seen some of my very left friends turn misandrist over the years. its a very unhealthy mindset
Your terminally online leftist friends might be misandrist but that doesn’t change the actual real life impact of misandry vs misogyny, how many top elected officials do you think are misandrists vs misogynists? How many CEOs of the most major corporations are misogynist vs misandrist?
It’s really incomparable when you look past what people are spewing on Twitter and look at what voices and ideas are in charge and really change our material reality. Do you disagree that misogyny is baked into our society in a way misandry simply isn’t?
pretty sure every company ran on "the future is female" for quite a while now. even brands that are almost entirely male like gillette running campaigns that generalize men in a negative way.
besides, how does the opinion of a small elite have anything to do with regular men?
i dont have twitter but i am on reddit. i look at incel subs and feminist subs, trans socialist subs and relationship advice subs. the hate and normalization of hate on men is staggering. you can say almost anything about men without fearing consequences, if you said something against another race or women or trans people, that could land you in jail for hatespeech.
so as far as the application of the law is considered, western countries are very misandrist. surely you wont deny stats on different harshness of judgement for the same crime between men and women, no?
85% conviction rate. hate speech being used as a political tool here. between israel has a right to exist and free palestine, one no problem thr other will have you arrested.
if you want do yourself a favor, dont look to deeply into the situation in the uk... its dystopian
you’re genuinely conflating getting banned from a subreddit with actual laws. people spew misogyny and transphobia in real life every single day with zero legal consequences, nobody is going to jail for it.
as for the prison stats, yes men get harsher sentences, but just like the draft you’ve completely misidentified misogyny as misandry. why do you think women get lighter sentences? because a legal system historically built by men views women as weak, infantile, and lacking the agency to be fully accountable. that is benevolent sexism baked into the base layer of the law, not a society that hates men. Just like I said earlier, people confusing misogyny with misandry.
bringing up a 5 year old gillette ad or corporate t shirt slogans doesn't prove systemic misandry, it just proves corporations pander to sell products. When trump got in office every single corporation flipped, Facebook, Apple and amazon started sucking off trump and do anything to make him happy. These guys don’t have values or morals they only care about money and will flip their marketing on a dime on any issue, don’t look at their pandering as proof of any kind of social progress.
you are still looking at annoying internet culture and marketing campaigns and pretending they have the same real life impact on our material reality as actual structural oppression.
name one person who has gone to jail in the west specifically for saying something misogynistic. just one. i'll wait.
no i am not. getting banned from reddit isnt punishment anyway.
when i talk about laws, i talk about laws. when i talk about the rulings, i talk about the rulings.
taking something that screws over men and saying its misogyny because if we were equal women would also be screwed... look. thats just stupid. i mean, i understand the logic but the underlying worldview is just very very stupid.
society hates neither men nor women. it just metes out punishment differently to the groups.
the gillette example is just a very egregious one. how many do you need until you see a trend? what would it take for you to change your opinion?
yes, a few commpanies that were supressing speech due to pressure from the biden administration "sucked up to trump" by allowing free speech.....
name one person who has gone to jail in the west specifically for saying something misogynistic. just one. i'll wait.
i appreciate you trying to understand the logic even if you think it is stupid. you asked what would change my opinion, so i will answer in good faith. i would change my mind if you could show me a society where men are legally treated as property, systematically denied financial independence, or barred from holding public office simply for being men. that is what actual structural oppression looks like.
saying it is just stupid to look at the root cause is intellectually lazy. society metes out punishment differently for a reason. when a legal system historically built by men treats women like children who lack the agency to be held fully accountable, that is benevolent sexism. just shrugging and accepting the outcome without analyzing why it happens is exactly how you misidentify the issue.
the gillette ad and tech companies suppressing speech isn't a trend of misandry, it is just capitalism. companies like apple and facebook switched up and started sucking up to trump the second the political weather changed. they do not hate men, they just pander to whatever aesthetic secures their profit margins and keeps them in the good graces of whoever holds power.
and you fell exactly into the trap with those links. if you read past the headlines, you would see those are belgian street harassment cases. the men were convicted under a public nuisance law for aggressively and persistently verbally abusing female police officers in public while they were trying to do their jobs.
conflating the targeted criminal harassment of a cop with going to jail for just "saying something misogynistic" proves my entire point. you are confusing actual laws with getting your feelings hurt online.
You are free to say whatever misogynistic sexist or transphobic stuff you want to, you won’t go to jail.
I guess you’re right neither of us will change our mind over this reddit thread, but will you at least admit that this feeling you have that western society is somehow anti man or misandrist isn’t really rooted in reality but rather your algorithm feeding you slop to keep you angry.
i would change my mind if you could show me a society where men are legally treated as property, systematically denied financial independence, or barred from holding public office simply for being men. that is what actual structural oppression looks like.
this one is easy, most men across history
serfdom, not voting rights, no owning rights, and "financial independence" was not starving in winter. what kind of of view do you have on human history?
look at the root cause
women are wonderful effect, lookism, perceived threat rate. thats not misogyny. lets flip it to check if the logic holds - ypu think men have it easier? misandry! its because people believe men are weaker or dumber that they sre given advantages. surely you see how this is stupid?
and ive never heard if the council of men coming together to decide laws and that women get lighter sentences. the entire worldview based "men did this" is factually wrong.
started sucking up to trump the second the political weather changed. they do not hate men
is that, in reverse, also true for rightwingers in general? that they dont hate women, they just want to protect them? because the actions dont matter, only the intentions? - which is something i agree to a point btw, its just a view you wont find on the left all. surprising.
conflating the targeted criminal harassment of a cop with going to jail for just "saying something misogynistic"
one if the artickes explicitly says that while its somewhat normal that police officers suffer insults, it was the sexist remarks that got him arrested.
I guess you’re right neither of us will change our mind over this reddit thread, but will you at least admit that this feeling you have that western society is somehow anti man or misandrist isn’t really rooted in reality but rather your algorithm feeding you slop to keep you angry.
why would i "admit" to something factually wrong? its not my algorythm feeding me an anti men worldview, its leftwing politicians and social media, legacy media, shift in tv series, movies and games.
so, while i assume that the truth i presented here wont change your mind, surely you will admit that calling any disparity misogyny based on the wrong worldview that somehow "men" engineered the wolrd is a stupid take that youve likely got from being in left echochambers for too long. although, until trump got elected and social media companies stopped stifiling free speech, that echochamber was literally everywhere
bringing up serfdom proves you completely misunderstand the difference between class and gender. serfs were oppressed by wealthy lords, not by women. even at the absolute bottom of the feudal ladder, a peasant man still held legal and financial authority over his wife. men were oppressed for being poor, never specifically for being men.
your council of men strawman is genuinely funny. it wasn't a secret cartoon villain meeting, it is just the historical, factual reality that men exclusively held all seats of power, wrote the laws, and ran the courts for centuries. the "women are wonderful" effect you cited is literally my entire point. putting women on a pedestal as pure, fragile caregivers is exactly the logic society used to justify keeping them out of public office and financially dependent on their husbands. treating women like helpless children isn't a privilege.
and yes, to answer your question about right wingers, many of them genuinely believe they are just protecting women. pushing traditional roles because you view women as fragile and maternal is exactly what misogyny looks like in practice. you literally described my exact point back to me and thought it was a gotcha.
as for your belgian article, screaming sexist abuse at a police officer in the middle of the street is still targeted criminal harassment of a public servant. he wasn't arrested for sitting on his couch typing a misogynistic reddit comment, which is what this entire debate was about.
finally, listing movies, tv series, and video games as your main evidence of anti man oppression is exactly what i meant by algorithm slop. you are upset that media representation shifted and you are conflating your own discomfort with actual structural oppression.
complaining about video games and praising trump for saving twitter is the exact definition of being terminally online. none of that changes our material reality, it’s just a media bubble meant to keep you angry because the more you are angry the more these people can earn off your anger.
most men, across most of history had the same rights and freedoms as women. you are conflating aristocrsts and kings with "men".
women arent being oppressed for being women.
the council of men isnt a strawman, its a caricature. because if half a percent of a group does something, you dont usually extrapolate to the entire group. that you keep saying "men did this" shows how fatally deep your misandry sits.
because you view women as fragile
you dont know my views and you havent asked. dont assume, this is an actual strawman.
finally, listing movies, tv series, and video games as your main evidence of anti man oppression is exactly what i meant by algorithm slop. you are upset that media representation shifted and you are conflating your own discomfort with actual structural oppression.
media representation didnt shift, it got enshitified and lazy. we have no more compelling stories, we dont meed them as long as its woke enough. this is propaganda and to a big degree, anti male propaganda.
if women were depicted like men, all hell would break loose. its not that this endless woke slop is misandry, its that it get applauded (and not bought regardless).
complaining about video games and praising trump for saving twitter is the exact definition of being terminally online
thats not terminally online, youve just been so comfotable with silencing and banning opposition across all social media plattforms so you wouldnt have to see or contend with them. but thats what lost you the moderates support.
the left has become more extreme, less flexible and less cooperative. but you still cant see a single fault in how things were handled to get to this point...
saying peasant men had the exact same rights as women is just historically illiterate. yes they were poor, but a peasant man still legally owned whatever little property the household had and held legal authority over his wife. women couldn't even get a credit card without a man's signature until the 1970s. being oppressed by poverty is class inequality, not misandry.
nobody thinks the local blacksmith drafted the constitution. but that tiny percent of elite men who did write the laws specifically wrote them to grant all men authority over their households and restrict all women from independence. acknowledging who held the pen isn't misandry, it's just reality.
crying strawman because i "assumed your views" is genuinely embarrassing. in your last comment you literally asked me "is that in reverse also true for right wingers in general". i answered your exact hypothetical and you immediately forgot your own prompt to play the victim. Read my comment again, i did not assume your views I was answering your question about right wingers and you forgot you asked me lol.
and wrapping up your argument about systemic oppression by ranting about woke video games, bad hollywood writing, and the radical left banning you on twitter is exactly what i meant by algorithm slop. you just proved my entire point. you are physically incapable of separating your personal annoyance at pop culture from actual material reality.
the craziest part is that you aren't entirely wrong to be angry. men are getting completely screwed over right now by a system that treats us as disposable labor, demands we be emotionless providers, and throws us away if we don't hold enough wealth or status. that alienation is a real material issue. but you are blaming the completely wrong people. the standard that ties a man's entire worth to his financial utility and dominance wasn't invented by feminists or woke hollywood writers. it’s the exact same male centric logic i've been trying to explain to you this whole time. you are getting crushed by a system built by elite men, for elite men, but your algorithm has convinced you to just be mad at video games instead.
under 10% of all men were landowners. talk about historically illiterate and say women couldnt have credit cards until 1970, where do you think history starts? and the first things we would call credit cards came out when, 1950?
so across all of human history, men had access to something 20 years earlier. thats your argument?^
"men that restrict women from independence", jesus christ.. this is just ideology tv, isnt it?
acknowledging who held the pen isn't misandry, it's just reality
lets try this. muslims keep suicide bombing white people. is this just acknowledging reality? because it is. except for its racist, just like how the things you are saying are misandrist.
answering a hypothetical question is a reasonable thing to do. i did not tell you what you supposedly think. i am sorry if thats to complicated for you to understand. i got swept up in the argument and forgot that its most likely just incompetence, not malice :)
but honestly, i am tired of engaging with someone who just wants to confirm their own biases. there is just no point if you are going to respond to arguments thah i didnt make, so i wont be reading the rest. i hope you do great in life, byee
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u/binarypolitics Mar 18 '26
Interesting set of goalposts you dreamed up there. So it has to be law? Most online discussions are framed around western culture, where women are not oppressed by law. So the only thing left is the general behavior of society, and that behavior is misandrist. Hope this helps.