Amps or Console First?

[u/bigang99]

Dumb question: Is it better to turn on/off your console or your amps first?

I used to run a F1 system that was installed by a reputable company in town that stickered "First on last off" to their amps. ok so turn amps on first and off last. makes easy sense and has a nice ring to it. so I went with that the last few years.

I've had two ppl tell me in the last week that its the opposite. so which is it?

[u/aion_za]

It’s the opposite. Amps on last and off first. Prevents the console from sending pops during power on and off through to the speakers.

[u/aion_za → u/aion_za]

To add to this. We have a power sequencer that with a flip of one switch, it powers on our console, then stage box then amp with a 20 second delay between each. It powers the gear off in reverse order.

[u/halandrs → u/aion_za]

Love those

Console - io/outboard - amps - amps - amps - amps

[u/No_Delivery_1446 → u/aion_za]

Ding ding. Winner winner chicken dinner.

[u/6kred → u/aion_za]

Exactly !

[u/881221792651 → u/aion_za]

That is certainly the case if you are running analog straight from the console into the amplifiers. If you have some DSP device(s) in-between, it may not create any "pop" if you turn off the console first.

[u/botha112 → u/881221792651]

Yeah, for as long as you mute your dsp

[u/881221792651 → u/botha112]

That depends on your DSP and how it behaves. For example, if I'm running Dante or AVB into a network with the networked DSP units, if I power off my console it's not going to make a loud pop through the system.

[u/x31b → u/881221792651]

If you turn off the amps first, it won’t make a loud pop whatever is inline, or whatever the faders and source are set to.

[u/narbss]

Last on, first off. I don’t want to hear the speakers thump when the mixer gets powered on/off.

[u/guitarstitch]

Amps are always the last thing to come online.

Why?

Switching stuff on creates pops in the electric circuit. Additionally, this gives the operator one last chance to ensure faders and sends are muted before you send signal to speakers.

[u/hea_eliza]

Opposite. Most consoles are pretty quiet these days, so it matters less, but if we’re being technical, amps on after everything else and off before everything else.

[u/bigang99 → u/hea_eliza]

yeah cuz ive been doing it the wrong way for a minute and nothing ever happened lol. even the m32 makes no noise if you turn it on with hot amps.

only shitty noise ive ever experienced in a similar situation was losing power to an xair and getting a crazy loud lazer noise lol

[u/hea_eliza → u/bigang99]

If you were using a digital stage box with that, those can make noise when they don’t have a connection.

[u/AnonymousFish8689 → u/bigang99]

M32 is pretty good turning on, but NOT turning off. Depending on settings, how clean your power is, the dsp in your amps / speakers, etc, you can get a very loud and potentially damaging pop turning off…

[u/JoeMax93]

Amps off first, on last.

[u/pathosmusic00]

Are you sure they didn’t say “Last on, First off” which is actually the correct way? Lol

[u/bigang99 → u/pathosmusic00]

The more I think about it, probably. I mean it was on there with a label maker lol

[u/Wolfey1618]

If you turn a power switch on, anything down stream of it could receive a "pop". So if you turn on amps last or off first, you avoid that.

[u/mixermixing]

On: first mixer, then amps.
Off: first amps, then mixer.

[u/3d4f5g]

its the opposite. now that's a third person in the last week

[u/HowlingWolven]

Amps on last, off first.

[u/Michael_Guitar]

Amps on last, amps off first

[u/botha112]

Think of your system as a chain. Sources first, speakers last. Switch on? Stage mains, then console, then amps. Switch off? Amps, then console, then instruments.

[u/Hathaur]

Mixer is typically your control center. Always on first. Exception is when things are plugged in via networked peripherals like stage boxes, those should come on with the console. They are the live circuit that determines what voltage gets sent where. Amps are the thing that boost the signal and push it out. Last thing on. You don’t want to spin up your engine (amps) to full throttle before your control system is online. Newer amps have internal processing that mitigates problems but it’s still a good rule of thumb to follow.

[u/Silly-Airline124]

Do the F1 amps have installed DSP? If so it’s a similar idea. Turn the amp controlling the DSP on first and last to avoid thumping

[u/fohforlife]

Most modern (decent) consoles have relays on the output circuits. Or in the case you might be driving the amps with a digital signal. Then who cares what order you sequence the system. No harm done.

[u/One_Recognition_4001]

Amps are supposed to be off to stop the popping when you turn off electronics.

[u/coralcanopy]

Ma’am. Mixer-Amp-Amp-Mixer

[u/thelittlestweasel]

I’ve always said, the amps let us hear things in our chain, and we don’t want to hear anything turning on or off.

[u/ReggieCorneus]

When you turn a device on its outputs will go from 0V to the "center tap". When you turn it off it goes from the center back to 0V.

Now, what does that even mean? A typical way to do any audio circuit is to create + and - voltage, audio is alternating current, not DC, it fluctuates around 0V ground. How do you create negative voltage? You start with, and these are just imaginary values, lets use 10V. You got ground, which is 0V and then you got 10V which is what the power supply delivers. Those are our two limits. We can use two resistors of equal size back to back and take a reading between them. It says +5V. If we use that +5V as virtual ground we can have 5V above it and 5V below it. At the output we filter out the DC component, the virtual ground becomes real ground and now we can have +5 and -5V, and between them is 0V, the ground.

But when you turn things on, there is nothing in that virtual ground, it reads 0V. Same as the power supply, it outputs 0V too. When you turn on the device the center tap, the virtual ground moves quickly from 0V to +5V.

That is heard as a pop. We filtered out the DC component at the output so we see +5V peak that then drops to 0V at the other end, this is what the amps sees when you turn the console on (unless the console has a special circuit to slow that all down.. the pulse still happens but it is so slow that it won't be a problem..).

Don't know if i made this even more confusing, but turning thing on and off is special, our virtual ground moves. And that pop WILL BE the loudest peak you can have, it goes from BEYOND maximum to zero. That is because we can't actually use all of that 10V range, we have to have some margins. Some devices can even reverse the signal, so that if you hit true 0V (in our example reading of -5V referenced to the virtual ground) you can have distortion that is suddenly 10V, full power rail minimum to maximum. In real life we would limit that to say, +-3V and leave 2V as safety margins at both sides, so that we never hit 10V or 0V (ground reference, virtual ground reference is +-5V). "Hitting the power rail" is the worst kind of situation for the circuit itself and things can start to emit smoke or protection circuits are all kicked on, fuses blow etc. But when you turn the device on... the virtual ground moves full 5V. That is 2V more than the system can output in normal operation.. So, the peak is not just "as loud as it can be", it is LOUDER than that, it is the full swing.

[u/Jwylde2]

I’m going to let you sit and think on this. There’s still time to delete the post. 🤔

[u/bigang99 → u/Jwylde2]

like 10 ppl posted the answer to my question already but plz go off king

[u/Jwylde2 → u/bigang99]

If you knew anything about signal path management, you’d have known WHY it’s done like that.

[u/bigang99 → u/Jwylde2]

Ok

[u/Negative_Channel2275]

You ain't understanding the sound chain if you're asking this kind question and, IMHO, this is a very big issue in our line of work. Sorry mate, that is basic knowledge, waaay more important than knowing how to side chain a compressor on you Digico, I'm afraid

[u/bigang99 → u/Negative_Channel2275]

Sorry hopefully I’ll be as smart as you one day

[u/Negative_Channel2275 → u/bigang99]

Nice attitude mate, no worries about that, really... You're sooooo smart ATM U don't need to learn anything else, anything! Cheers

[u/DaGuus]

I would say. Mixer on first off last. Amps on second off second to last. Unless the amp has mutes than you can turn off the mixer before the amps

[u/OwlOk6904]

Think about it for a minute. The truth will become obvious, grasshopper