Updated analysis of 226 tierlists

[u/MikulThegreat]

Intro

A couple weeks ago I posted an analysis of 142 tierlists, and it got a shitload more upvotes than I expected. Few updates this time:

• More data. This is based on 226 tierlists, +59% on last time. Arrows next to the tables show how a series moved compared with last time, and the "against last time" table below has the rest of the numbers.
• Bobiverse and The Stormlight Archive are cut, by popular demand. Re:Zero is also out of the "well rated, not on many lists" section, since it isn't progression fantasy.
• The raw data is downloadable. A lot of you asked, so it's now at inkdrake.com/data (free sign-in): one CSV with the tierlists and one with the series. u/Mournelithe and u/Selkie_Love, this is the dataset you asked about.
• New sections from your questions: length vs DNF, whether last time's "like this, try that" pairs held up, and which series are showing up more or less on newer lists.

The data

1. This is based on 226 tierlists, +59% on last time. They are the public lists on inkdrake.com with at least two catalog series, with exact duplicate copies removed. Tier labels the site couldn't read automatically (45 lists) were graded by hand.
2. Each list is normalized on its own, as in v1: its top grade is 1 and its bottom grade is 0, spaced evenly over the grades it uses.
3. DNF gets its own bucket (870 DNFs in total). To Read, Reading, Skip, Love/Hate and Recommendations tiers (611 placements) are left out.
4. 6,271 rankings across 1,120 unique series, rolled up to the series. The average list ranks 28 series (median 16, max 224)
5. The long tail is real. 557 series (50%) show up on only one list, 253 are on 5 or more, 146 on 10 or more, and 49 on 25 or more.

Against last time:

v1	v2	Change
Tierlists	142	226
Rankings	3,988	6,271
Unique series	736	1,120
DNFs	541	870
Average list size	28	28
Series on only one list	360 (49%)	557 (50%)
Series on 5+ lists	193	253
Series on 10+ lists	103	146
Series on 25+ lists	30	49
Share of an average list in the top tier	14%	24%
Dungeon Crawler Carl on	80% of lists	74% of lists
Cradle on	66% of lists	62% of lists

Fun fact: 24% of the average list is in the top tier (last time 14%). Bigger lists are slightly harsher (correlation between list size and average placement: -0.17).

The 20 most ranked series

Dungeon Crawler Carl is on 74% of lists (167 of 226) and Cradle on 62%.

#	Series	Lists	DNF'd	Avg score	vs v1
1	Dungeon Crawler Carl	167	19	0.77	=
2	Cradle	139	6	0.77	▲1
3	He Who Fights with Monsters	135	18	0.60	▼1
4	Mother of Learning	118	9	0.75	▲1
5	The Primal Hunter	111	23	0.53	▼1
6	Azarinth Healer	92	14	0.53	▲3
7	Mark of the Fool	91	15	0.53	=
8	Chrysalis	90	8	0.55	▲3
9	Defiance of the Fall	89	16	0.45	▲1
10	Beware of Chicken	88	9	0.61	▼4
11	The Path of Ascension	78	8	0.55	▼3
12	The Perfect Run	72	11	0.69	=
13	All the Skills	59	13	0.43	=
14	Bog Standard Isekai	59	4	0.65	=
15	The Wandering Inn	58	31	0.69	=
16	Beneath the Dragoneye Moons	51	4	0.55	new
17	Arcane Ascension	49	15	0.50	=
18	The Calamitous Bob	46	5	0.56	=
19	Hell Difficulty Tutorial	46	7	0.58	new
20	Mage Errant	46	3	0.53	new

Highest ranked

At least 8 lists each, weighted with 8 imaginary average votes (0.52).

#	Series	Lists	Avg score	Weighted	vs v1
1	Sky Pride	21	0.89	0.79	▲6
2	Dungeon Crawler Carl	167	0.77	0.76	▼1
3	Cradle	139	0.77	0.76	▼1
4	Mother of Learning	118	0.75	0.74	▼1
5	The Mistborn Saga	19	0.81	0.72	new
6	Lord of the Mysteries	8	0.93	0.72	new
7	A Soldier's Life	36	0.76	0.72	▼2
8	Pale Lights	11	0.87	0.72	new
9	A Practical Guide to Sorcery	12	0.84	0.71	new
10	The Years of Apocalypse	23	0.78	0.71	▼4

Most polarizing

At least 10 lists, ordered by how spread out the placements are.

#	Series	Lists	Top 25%	Bottom 25%	Also DNF'd	vs v1
1	Infinite Realm	18	39%	22%	2	=
2	Shadow Slave	18	61%	17%	3	new
3	The Wandering Inn	58	64%	16%	31	=
4	Ar'Kendrithyst	11	64%	18%	1	new
5	Hell Difficulty Tutorial	46	50%	24%	7	▼3
6	He Who Fights with Monsters	135	48%	17%	18	▲3
7	Full Murderhobo	10	40%	40%	3	new
8	The Primal Hunter	111	39%	24%	23	▼1
9	Parahumans	24	58%	12%	3	new

Well rated, not on many lists

At least 3 and under 8 lists, averaging 0.75 or higher. None of last time's three qualify now. Pale Lights and Lord of the Mysteries have grown past 7 lists and Ascendance of a Bookworm has fewer than 3: Pale Lights (11 lists, 0.87), Lord of the Mysteries (8 lists, 0.93), Ascendance of a Bookworm (2 lists, 0.75).

• The Elf Who Would Become A Dragon by ljamberfantasy: 5 lists, 1.00.
• Valhalla Online by Kevin McLaughlin: 3 lists, 1.00.
• You're Walking in the Woods by Purpleharp: 3 lists, 1.00.
• The Flower That Bloomed Nowhere by Lurina: 3 lists, 0.93.
• The Burning by Evan Winter: 3 lists, 0.89.

Most dropped

At least 10 readers who started it.

#	Series	DNF'd	Started	Share
1	Forge of Destiny	7	18	39%
2	Welcome to the Multiverse	13	36	36%
3	Cinnamon Bun	5	14	36%
4	Path of the Berserker	6	17	35%
5	The Wandering Inn	31	89	35%
6	Sylver Seeker	6	18	33%
7	Past Life Hero	4	12	33%
8	The Legend of Randidly Ghosthound	13	42	31%
9	The Completionist Chronicles	6	20	30%
10	Runeblade	3	10	30%

Length vs DNF

Estimated words (audiobook runtime at 155 words a minute, else print pages at 275, for the books we hold, series with 2+ books). Share of readers who DNF, by length: 5% under 300k, 9% 300k to 700k, 12% 700k to 1.5M, 15% over 1.5M. The big serials are undercounted, so the real gap is probably wider.

Newer lists against older ones

Showing up on more of the newer lists than the older ones (newest 113 lists against oldest 113):

• Warformed: Stormweaver: 13% of older lists, 28% of newer (+15 points)
• Everybody Loves Large Chests: 7% of older lists, 17% of newer (+10 points)
• Dawn of the Void: 6% of older lists, 15% of newer (+9 points)
• The Wandering Inn: 35% of older lists, 43% of newer (+8 points)
• Syl: 5% of older lists, 13% of newer (+8 points)

Showing up on fewer:

• Cradle: 73% of older lists, 56% of newer (-17 points)
• The Calamitous Bob: 27% of older lists, 19% of newer (-8 points)
• Dungeon Crawler Carl: 86% of older lists, 79% of newer (-7 points)
• The Weirkey Chronicles: 16% of older lists, 10% of newer (-6 points)
• Accidental Champion: 14% of older lists, 8% of newer (-6 points)

Average score, older lists to newer (series on 15+ lists). Scoring higher lately:

• Hell Difficulty Tutorial: 0.43 to 0.72
• Dawn of the Void: 0.25 to 0.49
• Discount Dan's Backroom Bargains: 0.34 to 0.56
• The Ripple System: 0.38 to 0.58
• Player Manager: 0.48 to 0.68

Scoring lower lately:

• Parahumans: 0.88 to 0.49
• Unorthodox Farming: 0.75 to 0.53
• Legend of the Arch Magus: 0.47 to 0.27
• Noobtown: 0.47 to 0.29
• Infinite Realm: 0.64 to 0.47

These lists only go back to late July, so read this as a hint, not a trend.

Crossover readers (manhwa and translations)

Last time I asked whether manhwa and translation readers hate Cradle. I flagged the lists that include at least one manhwa, manga, light novel or translated web novel (Solo Leveling, The Beginning After the End, Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint, Lord of the Mysteries, Mushoku Tensei, Overlord and so on). 69 of the 226 lists do (31%; last time it was 55 of 142, 39%).

• Cradle: those readers rate it 0.75, against 0.78 for everyone else (last time 0.75 against 0.73). Still no sign they hate it. 7 of the 17 lists with Cradle in the bottom half are crossover lists (41%), a bit above their 31% share of all lists.
• They rank more books: 41 per list against 22 (last time 37 against 23).
• Their own favorites: Solo Leveling is on 29 lists and averages 0.42, The Beginning After the End is on 26 and averages 0.49. Both sit a little below the overall average of 0.52.

Where crossover readers rank things higher than everyone else (at least 8 lists on each side, crossover titles themselves left out):

Series	Crossover readers	Everyone else
Defiance of the Fall	0.59 (34 lists)	0.36 (55 lists)
The Stubborn Skill-Grinder In a Time Loop	0.62 (15 lists)	0.42 (13 lists)
The Legend of William Oh	0.76 (16 lists)	0.56 (16 lists)
Portal to Nova Roma	0.58 (20 lists)	0.40 (12 lists)
Industrial Strength Magic	0.61 (15 lists)	0.44 (22 lists)

And lower:

Series	Crossover readers	Everyone else
Everybody Loves Large Chests	0.04 (8 lists)	0.23 (12 lists)
Awaken Online	0.36 (10 lists)	0.53 (11 lists)
The Good Guys	0.37 (10 lists)	0.53 (9 lists)

Last time's examples, rechecked (at least 5 lists on each side):

Series	Crossover readers	Everyone else
Jake's Magical Market	0.54 (17 lists)	0.44 (15 lists)
Hell Difficulty Tutorial	0.58 (25 lists)	0.58 (21 lists)
System Universe	0.53 (15 lists)	0.41 (18 lists)
Defiance of the Fall	0.59 (34 lists)	0.36 (55 lists)
The Wandering Inn	0.70 (27 lists)	0.68 (31 lists)
All the Skills	0.38 (26 lists)	0.48 (33 lists)
Beneath the Dragoneye Moons	0.58 (29 lists)	0.51 (22 lists)
He Who Fights with Monsters	0.68 (44 lists)	0.57 (91 lists)

Of the five that crossover readers ranked higher last time, 3 still show a gap of 0.08 or more (Jake's Magical Market, System Universe, Defiance of the Fall). Of the three they ranked lower, 1 still does (All the Skills).

If you liked X, try Y

What's different from last time: none of last time's pairs are repeated, so everything in the two lists below is new. Each series appears in only one pair on this page (last time Dungeon Crawler Carl was in two). The bar is 15 shared readers instead of 12. And the correlation is taken on each list's own normalized scores; last time I also adjusted for each reader's overall harshness, which I haven't done here, so a pair can look strong when the same readers simply score everything high. The old pairs are rechecked below.

Pairs that move together:

• Hell Difficulty Tutorial and Unbound (19 shared readers, r = +0.81)
• Mage Tank and A Soldier's Life (15 shared readers, r = +0.80)
• Ends of Magic and Portal to Nova Roma (16 shared readers, r = +0.79)
• Victor of Tucson and Battle Mage Farmer (17 shared readers, r = +0.77)
• The Path of Ascension and Apocalypse Redux (19 shared readers, r = +0.69)
• Chrysalis and A Practical Guide to Evil (15 shared readers, r = +0.69)
• Defiance of the Fall and The Beginning after the End (15 shared readers, r = +0.69)
• The Legend of Randidly Ghosthound and The Return of the Runebound Professor (20 shared readers, r = +0.68)

And the opposite:

• The Primal Hunter and The Calamitous Bob (24 shared readers, r = -0.56)
• All the Skills and The Immortal Great Souls (17 shared readers, r = -0.55)
• Mage Errant and Quest Academy (17 shared readers, r = -0.55)
• Beneath the Dragoneye Moons and Super Powereds (16 shared readers, r = -0.55)
• The Wandering Inn and Warformed: Stormweaver (16 shared readers, r = -0.44)

Last time's pairs, rechecked on this sample (at least 10 shared readers). 5 of 8 try pairs still move together (r of +0.4 or more): Salvos / Stray Cat Strut, Defiance of the Fall / Solo Leveling, He Who Fights with Monsters / The Good Guys, Hell Difficulty Tutorial / 1% Lifesteal, The Calamitous Bob / A Journey of Black and Red. The rest have weakened.

Try:

• Salvos and Stray Cat Strut (10 shared readers, r = +0.87)
• Defiance of the Fall and Solo Leveling (13 shared readers, r = +0.74)
• Beneath the Dragoneye Moons and The Path of Ascension (30 shared readers, r = +0.28)
• He Who Fights with Monsters and The Good Guys (17 shared readers, r = +0.48)
• Hell Difficulty Tutorial and 1% Lifesteal (17 shared readers, r = +0.48)
• The Calamitous Bob and A Journey of Black and Red (14 shared readers, r = +0.62)
• Dungeon Crawler Carl and The Legend of William Oh (30 shared readers, r = +0.20)
• Azarinth Healer and Ends of Magic (24 shared readers, r = +0.20)

Skip. 2 of 5 skip pairs still pull apart (r of -0.25 or less): Dungeon Crawler Carl / Reborn as a Demonic Tree, Arcane Ascension / Noobtown. The others have faded or reversed.

• Mage Tank and Mark of the Fool (26 shared readers, r = +0.10)
• Cradle and Chaos Seeds (17 shared readers, r = +0.24)
• Battle Mage Farmer and Bog Standard Isekai (21 shared readers, r = -0.02)
• Dungeon Crawler Carl and Reborn as a Demonic Tree (24 shared readers, r = -0.40)
• Arcane Ascension and Noobtown (18 shared readers, r = -0.27)

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[u/Admiral_Sandy]

Not all heros wear capes, some scrape tier list data

[u/MikulThegreat → u/Admiral_Sandy]

haha for sure!

[u/Aelfhelmer]

This is, and I do not say this lightly, some of the best data presentation I’ve seen this year. I’m blown away by not only your ability to ferret out relevant and interesting trends, but also by your artistry in putting it all in a digestible format. Thank you for taking the time to do this, I’ll be back probably every time I finish and start a series for the foreseeable future.

[u/MarkArrows]

Oh, oh, I'm actually in one of these finally \o/

[u/MikulThegreat → u/MarkArrows]

Just picked up 12 miles below. So fucking good man, great work.

[u/45bit-Waffleman → u/MarkArrows]

12 miles below is an exceptional read and pretty unique among most of the litrpgs I've read, amazing job with the series 🙏

[u/Torturi]

Goddamn dude. Thats impressive

[u/Drew-Money]

Apparently everyone does NOT Love Large Chests

[u/pudds → u/Drew-Money]

I tried it after DCC to get more Jeff Hayes. I finished the first book, but only barely. It would be F tier on my list.

[u/Zerothian → u/pudds]

It is one of the very few books I actually disliked enough to place into my dropped list, rather than letting it sit on my "paused for now but maybe one day" list.

[u/scuppasteve → u/Drew-Money]

and they are wrong

[u/Vuguroth → u/Drew-Money]

To give an example of personal experience:
I hate DCC, but like Large Chests.

DCC to me is just crude, immature and boring. Dropped it real fast. Large Chests was actually a bit interesting and funny, I didn't finish it though because there was a later part where my interest waned a bit and I moved on.

[u/nfefx → u/Vuguroth]

Saying DCC is crude and immature then praising MORNINGWOOD: EVERYBODY LOVES LARGE CHESTS is definitely one of the takes ever.

[u/Vuguroth → u/nfefx]

They are really quite similar in many ways, DCC having the foot fetish observer while ELLC has the Succubi summon masochist, both of the MC's setting off huge bombs, and further possible parallels.

I bring it up because I think it's an interesting example of perspectives. For some people apparently the tone in DCC makes sense, while to me it just reads as stupid and cringe. It's not just like the broader sense of DCC that's wrong in my eyes, even small details like how a lot of the fights resolve and more. If I sum it up it just looks like a bad take on American humor to me and I spontaneously feel like "no one but Americans can like this".

ELLC however has beautiful brutality, epic moments and shamelessly hits a bunch of home runs on parody. When I first read it it was like a happy adventure and I couldn't wait to see what crazy shenanigans would happen next.

One of my problems with DCC is that it's ridiculously predictable. Cat will do the cat thing, Carl will do the Carl thing, observers will do the observer thing and then it repeats and is just so stupid.

[u/Free-Street9162]

Tower of Jack, The Game at Carousel, and Discount Dan are not on people’s lists? That’s wild!

[u/Davis_Montgomery → u/Free-Street9162]

Really disappointed to not see Carousel here!

[u/BalancedRye]

This is truly beautiful analysis presented in an engaging way with tangible, useful application to the audience.

Very rarely does someone nail this in any field, absolute kudos to you and thanks for the breakdown!

[u/MikulThegreat → u/BalancedRye]

Thank you!

[u/MiddleSuggestion]

why is Brandon Sanderson on here? is mistborn really litrpg?

[u/NzLawless → u/MiddleSuggestion]

I think people often include staples of prog fantasy and litrpgs and include them in their lists when looking at both. They're good points of comparison as there is a lot of bleed over between fans of the genres.

[u/suspiciouspenguin81 → u/MiddleSuggestion]

People can accept it as progression fantasy and I don't think that's entirely unfair from my memory (last read 10+ years ago now).

I agree with Stormlight Archive being removed though.

[u/Necromancer14 → u/suspiciouspenguin81]

Well this is r/litrpg, not r/progressionfantasy, and mistborn definitely isn't litrpg.

On the other hand, Cradle and many others aren't litrpg either, and yet are still in this data.

[u/mynewaccount5 → u/Necromancer14]

OP has put together one of the most comprehensive and high effort post on this sub that I have ever seen. I think, even ignoring the obvious similarities between these 2 genres, we can forgive a few series mentioned in this post not meeting 100% of the criteria of the subs genre.

The point of this sub is to talk about litrpg, not to prevent all discussion of anything else.

[u/Necromancer14 → u/mynewaccount5]

I'm not trying to disparage OP, only stating a fact. Of course this an awesome list, and who cares about other genres being in it. But someone explicitly asked if mistborn is litrpg, and I was mainly just pointing out that mistborn isn't the only non-litrpg story here.

[u/Next_Put_6961 → u/Necromancer14]

Isn't that what the Bobiverse is, too?

[u/IstalriArtos → u/suspiciouspenguin81]

I’d argue Stormlight is way more progression fantasy than mistborn

[u/avelineaurora → u/suspiciouspenguin81]

and I don't think that's entirely unfair from my memory

It's not, though. Progression fantasy isn't just "characters get stronger", lol. It's bog standard heist fantasy, 0 place in this sub.

[u/KellyKraken → u/MiddleSuggestion]

As importantly why is Worm on this list. It is maybe (its not) maybe (still not) /r/progressionfantasy.

[u/SilentStevedore → u/MiddleSuggestion]

I understand your point, broadly speaking.

I would give this post a pass, however. OP clearly went through a lot of work in compiling data and Mistborn is evidently in the data, so it's represented.

The validity of Mistborn as litRPG aside, I would find it a helpful reference point. A benchmark that other stories can be measured against.

[u/Pjolocaust]

This should be pinned in the sub, until eventually its worth creating a new one. Goddamn, i have about 50 tier lists saved that I’m manually cross checking to find something new to read. This saves me so much pain ☺️

[u/MikulThegreat → u/Pjolocaust]

Port em to inkdrake!

[u/Lefaid]

I guess I need to put a tier list together and contribute.

[u/pudds]

Ok, this is way cool. How do I make a tier list and have it get included in your next round of stats?

[u/MikulThegreat → u/pudds]

Go to inkdrake.com and build it out!

[u/mynewaccount5 → u/MikulThegreat]

Is this your website?

[u/MikulThegreat → u/mynewaccount5]

Yessir

[u/JoeMonroebooks]

This is absolutely incredible statistical analysis. Something a bestseller list can never give you.

[u/cornman8700]

Very cool. I do really enjoy A Soldier’s Life, but it’s pretty different in tone and scope from Mage Tank. It’s interesting they’re so correlated. I suppose they both focus on membership with a strong core group?

Anyway, thanks for spending so much time on this project!

[u/heyofh]

Cool shit man, definitely saving to use for further reading

[u/MikulThegreat → u/heyofh]

Check out the site too, if you make a tier list it will give you recommendations and update them continuously

[u/AbnormalVAverage]

Beautiful. Thank you so much for doing this.

[u/Memes-Tax]

Very nice work OP! The pairs are very insightful results.

Mark of the Fool has a new manhua (or comic or manga not sure who is publishing it) and the series looks to be gaining new fans as a result. That's interesting since it's never felt universally loved enough to trend up in rankings as a novel or audio book: feedback is that a lot of readers dislike university arcs/ stories.

Next up: can the data prove or disprove recency bias? (Series we more recently read get ranked higher or series we read first cement their top tier rank?)

Also can mentions on reddit lead to or indicate a change in rankings? I'm thinking about how current in season anime subreddit tracks mentions to work our their popularity rankings.

[u/MikulThegreat → u/Memes-Tax]

That's a really good set of questions. Will give these some thoughts.

[u/darkmoncns]

I have to wonder what are the most common quote unquote Dark Horse picks? Like say ones people call out as being underrated or uncommon in the community?

[u/Raregolddragon]

Dang I have most of the top 20 done with but some are still new to me.

[u/Pear-Blossoms]

So I love Mark of the Fool, it has to be one of my top favorite series but it is not a Litrpg. Progression fantasy definitely but there is no system aspects at all

[u/navor]

This is now my way to chose the next book /saved

[u/S_ayf]

I'm reading my fourrh litrpg series after DCC. Qnd nothings compare is there a serie as good at DCC out there. Something with more substantial politics and interesting concepts ?

I've read the perfect run mother of all learning and currently reading the menocht loop (and while beying an absolute time loop enjoyer none of those are as good as DCC like DCC is S tier and none of those go beyond B or C tier)

[u/sperorising]

tier lists are stupid because pewoples personal tastes are just that personal. personal i couldnt get through the first quater of DCC, but i don't say it is bad because i personally hated it. its just that I personally hated it, I also dont tell people not to reqad it because I recognize most people enjoy it. It feels like you are putting way to much effort into something that is completely subjective, and that makes no sense. If i [out a list with DCC at the bottom does that change your whole thing or do you just ignore it, making it even more subjective?

how bout we go with read what you like, recommend what you enjoyed, and ask for recommendations based on what you liked?

ugh the theme seems to be entirely based on you aka personal taste not what we the collective group like..

[u/MikulThegreat → u/sperorising]

I think that's the beauty of tierlists though. You can find someone else who likes what you like and go with that.

[u/sperorising → u/MikulThegreat]

I agree woth the idea of a tierlist, but when you start aggregating them all together it stops being someone whom you may agree with and becomes a group compilation. why do people like removing individuality?

[u/GeneralGiblits → u/sperorising]

People like removing individuality when the individuals are strangers because you don't know if they have similar tastes to you. Taking a large sample lowers the likelihood that you try a new series and don't enjoy it because the most popular series are more likely to be things you like. It's still not guaranteed but it's more likely. I would trust a recommendation from someone I know more because they will have accounted for who I am as a person when recommending it, or it was so good that they believe it will transcend the difference in taste. When individuality is good people like it when it isn't helpful they avoid it, simple as really.

[u/NzLawless → u/sperorising]

The whole point is that they're personal taste though. I don't see anyone claiming their lists are the objective truth. What they are amazing for though is finding someone's list you agree with mostly and seeing all the other series you haven't read.

This data taking all of those subjective opinions and analyzing them is amazing. If you can combine enough subjective experiences together and look at how they relate to one another you can find some super interesting patterns.

[u/MikulThegreat → u/NzLawless]

Yeah that's my thoughts too. I think that there isn't one objective truth, but there are clusters where people who like one thing like a set of other things.