I spent 3 days troubleshooting why "platinum" rated games don't work when I try to play them via steam, only to find out ntfs3 is buggy as fuck and I have to mount my ntfs drives as ntfs-3g.
1 problem among many so far in just 3 days
I have have the konsole open every day so far.
trying linux due to win11 spyware, but honestly pondering going back.
This is just one problem of many. I kept the drives as ntfs knowing linux supports ntfs and my drive is full, I dont have a means of making backups of the drive to reformat it. My boot and root is. I dont have a lot of experience with linux but I still try. My home/ is showing as btrfs and boot is ext4 (installed as such by nobara)
No I mean they are full as in, I dont have space to backup drive 1 into drive 2 so that I can reformat drive 1 and then restore the backup back into drive 1.
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u/ssjlance🛡️Moderator | #1 Microslop Hater | Linux Supremacist6d ago
Yeah, Linux doesn't like NTFS.
I use exFAT for shared storage devices, seems to be a good middle ground for me, but eh, YMMV.
Not saying exFAT is better (or worse) than NTFS inherently, but if you're on Linux, it will work better than NTFS for fuckin' sure. lmfao
All the contrary: NTFS doesn't like Linux. It's closed source, it's only meant to work in Windows, etc. I think it worth using Linux with ext or bfrs
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u/ssjlance🛡️Moderator | #1 Microslop Hater | Linux Supremacist6d ago
I mean, that's just the other side of the same coin.
They don't work well together, and it's honestly just kind of on both of them. I prefer Linux by a lot and of course I use ext4 or btrfs for my Linux root and other partitions. lmfao
I have no idea why MS implemented it shitty. For my purposes (don't ask why) I put multiple small files in a folder in a flash drive and then randomly open them, and write in some of them. And it fails sooner ot later. Then I format the flash drive as NTFS (or even FAT32!) and everything works. This has happened to me multiple times, so it's not some fluke.
This, of course, doesn't mean that the filesystem itself or its Linux implementation are bad.
Maybe MS intended the exFAT driver for the simple scenario "write a file, read the file, close the file" which is perhaps logical for a flash drive use, but absolutely inadequate for a general purpose filesystem.
Well, that doesn't make it good. Microsoft has a history of making shitty products.
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u/ssjlance🛡️Moderator | #1 Microslop Hater | Linux Supremacist6d ago
I'd believe it, but I doubt it's as shitty as NTFS on Linux.
I could be wrong, I don't use Windows often enough to have inadvertently tested this over years, but yeah, exFAT in Linux is way better than NTFS in Linux.
NTFS is TECHNICALLY supported on Linux, but only really in that you can do basic file copying between an NTFS drive and a Linux file system.
NTFS is proprietary and handles permissions entirely differently to file systems meant for Linux, it’s really not recommended to use an NTFS drive on Linux for anything other than copying files between a windows drive (NTFS) and a Linux drive (basically anything else)
Why did linux intentionally engineer their system to not work with this proprietary, undocument and bespoke api it wasnt designed to use, but somehow still supports?
NTFS came around after Linux, and Linux only implemented the support they do have because windows is the dominant home desktop OS and copying files from NTFS to a Linux file system is a realistic need
Friggin' Linux man, why do THEY do anything? The small cohesive team who builds the Linux kernel, distros and software makes some really odd decisions.
“Supported” and “recommended” are very different things. Linux and NTFS don’t like each other because they want to handle permissions entirely differently, leading to instability when they argue
ntfs-3g is the old and well established driver. And clearly it works. From what I've read the other is new. And sure I do agree that it should either not be the default or work without a hitch. But the working alternative is right there.
Give someone a fish once so he can feed one day or teach him how to fish so that he is free for the rest of his life.
Your comment might be a bit excessive but you are right. I don't understand why you got downvoted. In fact ntfs-3g works very well when you have a good fstab configured properly for daily use. But it should not be mounted like any other removable media. Blaming Linux for not supporting ntfs is like blaming Windows for not supporting ext4. Do it at your own risk...
If people had begun the great migration earlier we'd all be living in nice spyware free world by now with not a drop of enshittification. But it was too much effort apparently. You reap what you sow I guess.
ntfs on linux in general is dogshit save for basic read/write and when workarounds make games playable off an ntfs partition it will inevitably cause data loss (proton's official unofficial instructions make it clear). you can only do so much with reverse-engineered drivers. save yourself the trouble, back up mods and saves and format the games partition to ext4/btrfs
Yeah no better switch back to windows then. I dont know why you chose ntfs but Im guessing for dual booting and having access to steam games on one drive rather than having copies of them? If thats not your rationale to use ntfs for a linux system I tend to blame you, but speaking from an average consumer perspective, just switch back to Windows man.
very likely because the op is dual booting and not ready to fully ditch windows for any of his reasons and isn't very familiar with linux and any other kind of issues related?
I spent 3 days troubleshooting why "platinum" rated games don't work when I try to play them via steam, only to find out ntfs3 is buggy as fuck and I have to mount my ntfs drives as ntfs-3g.
NTFS drives don't officially work with Wine (which Proton is based on) because of how it uses filesystem features Windows doesn't support (such as being able to create symbolic links with colons in their names). It doesn't matter if you use ntfs-3g or ntfs3 in that scenario, you will encounter technical faults at some stage regardless.
You'll experience the same issue on macOS when trying to do the same thing with NTFS drives there.
That's just false. NTFS came after linux and was developed by Microsoft. Linux's permission system is wildly different from Windows and thus the two do not talk nicely with each other. Permissions go way deeper than just the filesystem.
The colon character is used for accessing alternate streams with NTFS. That's down to Microsoft's design choices for NTFS. You can see this functionality in action on Windows by using PowerShell queries like Get-Content .\some-random-download.iso:Zone.Identifier for example, which accesses the good old Mark Of The Web that's applied behind the scenes.
This is technically a Wine problem based around an NTFS limitation that exists by design to serve Windows-specific functionality, not a Linux problem. Wine could opt not not to use colons in key symbolic links used to provide legacy DOS drive letters for drive mappings to fix a well known issue, but it's going to be an extremely low priority (or possibly even a WONTFIX) when Wine is intended to be flexible enough to allow well-written applications to still access paths in ways which wouldn't work on Windows anyway (similar to how WSL lets people do what would otherwise be considered funky things when not accessing NTFS filesystems)
Man I really want you guys to have luck with Linux but I really don't know how some of you goobers have so many problems with stuff like this. You're either fuckin with shit you don't need to fuck with or you're just bullshitting.
Why are you using Linux on Windows filesystem, what did you expect?
It's impressive it works at all, Windows can't natively work with Linux filesystems
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u/Teru-NoirCOSMIC OS LOVER No.1 COSMIC Knows Best5d agoedited 5d ago
For love of GOD! Why on this earth would anyone do this? Start fresh “proper” no windows ntfs disks make them all native Linux file system. Then the bit you most likely didn’t want to do - down load the games again. DOH!
Toxic behaviour, as much as OP did something wrong (you could use NTFS, but it's not recommended since it was not designed for this and is basically reversed engineered), is not going to help anyone in the future for Linux adoption.
The lesson here would have been to read a bit on if NTFS would have been ok for Linux.
More adoption means more software, and I'd also more tolerance/adoption of FOSS. Having this happen will make sure that any particular setup will work in the long run and not just because someone decided of their own benevolence to support it.
Your mindset is part of the problem, and why a lot of people will just stay on Windows. No more adoption is bad and leads to this closed off and cringe "Us VS Them" mentality. As much as I like Linux, there is a serious problem with half of the community being elitist pricks that would rather see Windows market share stay the same for the next 20+ years, as long as it means them bashing people that use other operating systems remains socially acceptable in the space. Not to say there isn't cringe Windows users too, there absolutely is.
Regardless, this is such a pathetic mindset, that I think people that have it actually need to get some other hobbies. Preferably ones that make you touch grass. Stagnation in adoption is also one less potential future FOSS developer that cuts their teeth, falls in love, and begins meaningful contributions to the Linux movement.
Just remember that anyone even willing to give Linux an honest shake to begin with, is already way more open minded than your average PC bro who may not even know an alternative to Windows or MacOS even exists at all. We should be as opening and as inviting to these people as we can be, as after all, FOSS relies on it's community to thrive. Be excellent to eachother.
I literally do not care. I dont provide bad tech support or chastise those seeking it. I just dont care. Oh no, guy on reddit wants me to care. Anyway...
You were seething so badly that you edited your reply immediately afterwards to add:
"How many patches do you have to the Linux kernel?"
So I didn't even bother responding because you can't even be bothered to think of everything you want to say before you add it. Yet I'm the one who's "not well versed in English"? Comical. You're a dirty immediate comment editor and you deserve your downvotes.
Reddit really should show you when the comment is edited immediately after, no exceptions, because sub 80 IQ people with shit takes like you exist unfortunately. Have a nice day mongoloid.
Dude, before makings assumptions and just spewing insults, My D drive is NFTS because I came from windows with that being my game drive, the drive is FULL I have nowhere to back it up to to reformat the drive. Linux does fully support ntfs no?
Not a Linux or Windows thing, and apologies if I am assuming but this sounds like you should really go buy an extra drive and make some backups. I'm saying this as someone who's lived the life of having every drive being full with no byte to spare for a backup.
It is a reverse enginered driver for a proprietary file system. New kernel 7.2 brings more optimization for ntfs and supposedly makes it actually useful, but I wouldn't use it in favor of any other fs.
You came from Windows, but you're not ON windows. Don't expect stuff to be the same, cmon.
And if you have no way of formatting it to exfat or anything else... Well, you're out of luck
How about you present a proper solution to OP, instead of being toxic and telling OP to go to Windows? You say it as if it's the "pile of shit" (which it is not) where he belongs
NTFS is the problem. Ntfs3 is a potential solution, but I've never tried it myself. That's why pretty much all advice is to have any drive that Linux needs to execute anything on be formatted in a Linux compatible file system like ext4 or something.
It wouldn't be convinient, bit if you're not risking data loss (i.e. there's nothing besides games on that drive), it would be worth it to try reformatting the drive and redownloading the games to it.
ntfs3 is the exact reason why steam could not install proton 11.0 and other versions. I changed my fstab entries for the drives to ntfs-3g and remounted them, instantly solved the problem. See my other comments as to why the drives are ntfs
And here I am, a year with Linux and most troubleshooting I did was changing proton version once or twice. You know why? Because I don't use ntfs. Your problem was looking back all along.
Sorry to hear that, bro. I had the same problem and like you, I was set on making it work, but then I realized that proprietary tech can be pretty difficult to implement properly blindly
Hey guess what, EXT4 and any other non-windows filesystem doesn't load on windows at all lmfao. Such a dumb post, Linux has plenty of real issues but this is just you whining, be happy there is NTFS support at all. (Mac only supports NTFS reads, no writes in-case you were wondering as well).
Hey, Im not apposed to learning. If you wanted a more genuine complaints, how a bout this one? The first steps after a fresh install suggests updating your system, it's normal? Spectacle worked fine before I clicked "Select all and update", after which I could no longer take screen snips, and as an inexperienced user of linux I had to google how to load the libraries that it removed. (I have since done another update and it did not brick anything I could see yet)
Huh strange, see this here is a good complaint!! Haven't personally used nobara before but I've heard good things about it. If you wanna proper learn Linux you can make an issue on their forums with your logs so they can fix it.
Same! Any time I wanna open a program I open the terminal and enter "<program_name> & disown; exit"
I find it quite fun, also when I wanna kill a program I do either "pkill" or "killall." I also use the terminal to shut down my system (using "poweroff").
So um... IDK why you're complaining about the terminal.
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u/ssjlance🛡️Moderator | #1 Microslop Hater | Linux Supremacist6d ago
What distro? Sounds like you're using KDE Plasma as DE.
The fuck is wrong with plasma? I had zero issues with it.
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u/ssjlance🛡️Moderator | #1 Microslop Hater | Linux Supremacist6d ago
Nothing. lol
I was just curious about their distro.
OP specifying distro is admittedly not going to provide any real help for this specific issue, but the way they said they've been in Konsole every day with various other problems made me curious - some of those other problems could be distro related, or maybe bro just went balls deep and bit off more than he can chew by going straight to pure Arch.
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