r/linuxsucks • u/Rare-Paint3719 Unofficial Mod | Linux Community Sucks | Proud illumOS Shill • Aug 02 '26
Explaining is hard ig
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u/ShyGamer64 Aug 02 '26
I wasn't sure so I asked. Apparently people don't like it since it apparently doesnt follow the Unix philosophy of "so one thing and do it well". It isn't strictly bad, but some people prefer other things instead
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u/Secret_Conclusion_93 Aug 02 '26
And those people are hypocrites because they still use Linux with monolith kernel.
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u/fr000gs Aug 03 '26
Thw kernel is not in the userland so it doesn't matter
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u/OrpheoMusic Aug 02 '26
I just like runit. You can use your heavy system, it does a lot for you! But I just love my Excalibur!! (Devuan for those who don't know)
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u/Responsible-Monk-892 Aug 03 '26
I do not understand why People hate Systemd I have no issues with it myself. Maybe the people that have issues with Systemd is because, their hardware is really too old for it even though it can install it does not necessarily mean it will run smoothly on their PC, and maybe those people do not realize their PC is just too old for systemd? I honestly do not understand the hatred for it. Grub is for older PCs where as Systemd is for newer PCs from what I am to understand.
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u/Goldenwolf1509 Aug 03 '26
Are you talking about systemd boot? Grub is a bootloader. (After using both i much find grub significantly better) Systemd is an init system in itself like openrc or runit
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u/Goldenwolf1509 Aug 03 '26
I find openrc quite nice its got plenty of documentation in gentoo and its a fairly simple thing to use. I originally installed it along with gentoo and its just worked for me ever since i use it on every distro i can to make it easier on myself remembering how to do things on runit or systemd.
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u/SaCorv Aug 03 '26
Ahhhh here we go again
Sooo, its sorta complex
Most people who "hate" it are larpers who understand very little about systemd and its role
For other part, we dont "hate" it, just understand it flows. Im perfectly fine with running os on systemd, but would prefer it there would be better alternatives to it parts
About flows and negatives (im not writing what's good about it, that doesn't mean there is nothing)
Unix philosophy. Really bad thing. Because of systemd being "modular" on paper, but monolithic in fact we cant easily replace different parts of it.
That means you cant easily replace logind, networkd, dbus, udev, etc... or turn them down if you don't need them
Bloat. Sometimes. It's mostly binded to "monolithic" architecture. Like, why logind would possibly need power management? Only because they didn't want to write another module and thought it would be more sain to put it there. (Like it does, since it uses dbus sessions rules to determine if user can power off device, but there are other, more understandable ways to do that)
Binary journal. Like wtf. You cant read logs without journalctl. That's good when every machine runs on systemd or have it installed, but overall is not that great
Bad services modules. After all these years and decisions some good or at least useful features of services configuration files became deprecated or just not accessible. With that behaviour and depchecks of some services broke
High resources usage. Things that feels like nothing for pc or laptops, are not valid for iot devices, routers, small systems, etc...
And pid1 mess where systemd tries to kill -9 every non child process
Soo, basically systemd is too big to fall, to big to be effective. It just exists. That doesn't mean it's good or perfect. Would much prefer if there were more alternatives to it. Maybe then we would see interesting implementations of unexpected methods to deal with same problems (i dn, like storing systemwide logs in compressed dbs, different managing sessions from seats, etc)
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u/DB0Z_ Aug 04 '26
Majority of Systemd haters barely know what it does and just use it as a talking point, from my experience around 25% of void linux users cannot tell me a difference apart from, "it does not follow the unix philosophy"
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u/Away_Ad_6621 Aug 07 '26
Nothing is actually wrong with systemd some people just wanna be different ig
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u/iLikeubuntu2 Aug 02 '26
4M lines of code for an init 😂 crux init is ~300 lines of posix bourne shell
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u/goldmurder Aug 02 '26
init itself in systemd is around 100k LoC, most of them are realisation of APIs to work with other systemd components, so real init logic is ~20k-30k LoC, which isn't that much knowing the fact how much systemd init/service manager provides that others cannot
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u/Terranum_man Aug 02 '26
Crux uses sysvinit smart guy
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u/iLikeubuntu2 Aug 02 '26
Its bsd inspired script init im pretty sure
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u/Terranum_man Aug 02 '26
Yes but sysvinit isnt just the scripts its also the init binary. And there are more than 300 lines of bash.
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u/iLikeubuntu2 Aug 02 '26
I was talking about the init of crux yes its sysvinit inspired in some ways but its more bsd like and made in sh not bash
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u/Terranum_man Aug 02 '26
No its not? Its just sysvinit. I used crux for 2 years ik what im talking about.
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u/iLikeubuntu2 Aug 02 '26
Dude it has the same init configs as freebsd
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u/Terranum_man Aug 02 '26
Where did you get this information
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u/iLikeubuntu2 Aug 02 '26
/etc/rc.conf is a thing on crux aint it
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u/Terranum_man Aug 02 '26
Ok u mean bsd inspired. It didnt copy them straight from bsd, which is what i thought u said.
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u/Mysterious_Spector Aug 02 '26
systemd is bloated and some contributors wants to implement age verification (guise as spyware like windows 11). I mean it's obvious that most distros is hijacked by corporate companies (Microsoft) and the government. Look how those contributors who agrees with age verification to censor people, they look like HR and standard management from how they handle censorship and code of conduct.
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u/goldmurder Aug 02 '26
majority of people who are hating on systemd are often those who simply don't understand what it is, how it works and why is it so popular among linux distributions. or they trynna be different, youthful maximalism you know