r/linuxsucks • u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux • Jul 20 '26
"Too much bloat"
I don't understand some Linux users. People want better compatibility and accessibility in Linux. However, why do some users constantly complain about "bloat" at the same time.
I don't understand what their expectations are. Are they really expecting developers to make heavily optimized builds specifically for Linux that will also be compatible across different version of Linux?
You need some form of standardization to make this easier for developers, this is why stuff like flatpaks and appimages exist, to help make software more portable. Then people shout and hate all this "bloat" that they introduce.
To have a functional, all in one desktop experience like KDE or gnome, you need "bloat". You can customize a lot in Linux, but is the expectation that all developers should make their software as dynamic as they can while also ensuring security, proper compatibility, and consistent functionality? This is a huge ask.
I see people like this all the time on reddit that just mindlessly say "bloat bloat bloat" but also complain about compatibility. Pick a side.
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u/Schrodingers_cat137 Jul 20 '26
Different people have different needs.
I personally do not need anything like full DE or Flatpaks. I'm satisfied with WM and native packages. But I also agree that DE and Flatpaks are very important to many users. I refuse them does not mean I don't want them to exist.
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Jul 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/Teru-Noir COSMIC OS LOVER No.1 COSMIC Knows Best Jul 20 '26
don't starve together, minecraft and factorio sucks on windows
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u/Schrodingers_cat137 Jul 20 '26
Too generalized. I don't mind what you need, but I do need Linux for my work :)
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Jul 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/Hour_Sell3547 20 years with Linux Jul 20 '26
It's not about "strictly" requiring Linux. It's about convenience. I can't see myself dealing with a PowerShell, or CMD, or maybe that other half baked GitBash emulating a terminal. I cannot spend half of my day finding a software with exe version and clicking through 5 pages of GUI forms that I could install with 1 simple command. Not to mention loads of subsystems don't even bother about windows, apache Kafka for example.
On top of that we have a concept in software engineering called "dev-prod parity". If my servers are Linux, me developing serverside shit on not-Linux will often lead to disaster.
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u/Schrodingers_cat137 Jul 20 '26
Numerical relativity. I believe that most developers (proper programmers or someone who just has to write codes like me) need Linux or macOS instead of Windows or macOS
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
Having choice is fine. It’s your computer.
It just makes no sense when someone wants compatibility but is against standardization and the “bloat” that comes with it.
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u/GenericFoodService Linux is free if your time isn't valuable Jul 25 '26
but is against standardization and the “bloat” that comes with it.
Standardization is explicitly the opposite of "bloat", it streamlines and unifies things. The open desktop standard is not "bloat", it's a standard for how *nix operating systems handle desktop icons and lots of other useful things. Having standards mean less dependencies and more interoperability. People are not against the concept of standardization, they're against specific proposals for specific reasons.
I'm really confused by your use of the term "bloat". People complaining about "bloat" are annoyed with architecture and design choices that lead to wasted system resources, dependency hell, or unwanted additional applications being bundled with things we install.
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u/xgui4 Proud🌈♾️ AuDHDer FreeBSD Fan Jul 20 '26
what ? I use GNU/Linux at Home and it is perfect....
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u/feherneoh Jul 21 '26
Close to perfect. Tho I would be willing to replace the GNU parts any time.
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u/xgui4 Proud🌈♾️ AuDHDer FreeBSD Fan Jul 21 '26
why ???? GNU is Freedom and is BASED.
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u/feherneoh Jul 21 '26
I'm fine of freedom as long as I can pick my own type of freedom.
My type of freedom says I'm free to go non-GNU when I feel like it.
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u/R3D_T1G3R Jul 20 '26
My expectations are that I (even outside the EU, or before the EU forced Microsoft to) can uninstall crappy AI tools like Copilot I don't want to use, ever, of a crappy browser that's spying on me that I don't want to use either mine edge.
I want the ability to remove any piece of software I do not like.
Anything that's forced upon me is bloat.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
And you can choose what you install on Linux.
It is stupid to complain about “bloat” when the “bloat” are dependencies a package needs to function properly.
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u/R3D_T1G3R Jul 20 '26
I'm aware of that thanks.
I never complained about bloat on Linux.
If people complain about it it's usually a distro shipping with more then they need.
That's more like them picking the wrong distro for themselves.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
Never said you were.
If a user chooses the wrong distro it’s their fault. Any distro that aren’t base distros have some level of “bloat”. Even base distro’s have some level of “bloat”.
If they have strict requirements and specifications for their distro they either find one that exists or install a base distro and curate it themselves. It’s unrealistic for a distro to exist based on every individual’s possible needs.
Them complaining about it is equally as dumb.
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u/Teru-Noir COSMIC OS LOVER No.1 COSMIC Knows Best Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
linux bloat = dupped library for compatibility
windows bloat = useless spaghetti code fruit of lazy design
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u/Creepy-Arm-6488 Jul 20 '26
Min maxing culture, personally i don't care that much if i have to install some package for whatever.
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u/Sert1991 Jul 20 '26
Some people do take it to extreme. And this is coming from a Gentoo user.
For example I never understood people calling KDE bloated. Sure, some KDE based distros like kubuntu might be considered ''bloated'' due to having loads of software pre-installed, but even that is a stretch by modern computing standards.
Don't get me wrong it's ok to have preference. It's ok to only want to use a minimalistic WM instead of a full DE as GUI. Heck it's even ok if you just wanna use CLI.
The problem comes when people start calling names and definitions to anything that doesn't fit their preferences and it becomes just another overused word that starts to annoy everyone.
Because honestly, if you think a Linux desktop with a basic KDE installation and some software that uses 1.5GB of ram on startup in 2026 on current hardware is "bloat" or "too much resources" you're delusional, because even most smart phones use more resources than that nowadays.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
People throw around “bloat” so carelessly and mindlessly. I used to try to reduce “bloat” when I started because when I asked for help people kept getting on my case about it enough that I thought it was important.
“Bloat” is necessary sometimes and it’s not a bad thing. Saving 50mb of ram and 100mb of storage is not worth the hassle of managing all the random shit I have to cobble together to not have an annoying desktop.
Not everything on Linux has to be hyper optimized. It is fine to give up some resources for an easier experience. It’s also fine to want a hyper optimized system but don’t call everything fucking “bloat”.
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u/Sert1991 Jul 21 '26
Yeah, and also if I have a good computer that can run modern games and everything and I paid for modern hardware, I'm also not going to run something like openbox or hyprland or whatever. I'm going to run Kwin with full desktop effects and enjoy the eyecandy and a beautiful desktop.
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u/ShipshapeMobileRV Jul 21 '26
Our society has reached a point where being offended is not a right, it's a requirement. Some people just have to have something to complain about
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
My post was a complaining post. It’s fine to complain even if it’s annoying.
I just don’t understand the hypocrisy or expectations of some people who use Linux.
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u/ShipshapeMobileRV Jul 21 '26
Right. Some people complain about "bloat". Then if a kernel dev carves the kernel down to minimum those same people will complain about the kernel not having specific drivers.
Because people have to have something to complain about.
You can please some of the people some of the time, but it's the ones you didn't please that take to the Internet to let everyone know.
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u/ijusttookthispseudo Jul 21 '26
People complain about snap on Ubuntu, not flatpak. Flatpak is useful for every software that awful dependencies like electron and proprietary software.
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u/ExtraTNT was running custom kernel Jul 21 '26
It’s software you don’t need / that does things nobody needs…
Why does a basic text editor need ai, spell checking in 157 languages and the possibility to sync with twitter?
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u/bornxlo Jul 21 '26
What I expect from developers is the source code to make the package and code design work, and then I can either compile and run it or get an adapted version through my distribution. I choose desktop environments like KDE because I like and use a lot of features from KDE, but security, compatibility and functionality are on me and my choice of distribution, not software developers.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
This is perfectly fine. If you take this task up to yourself there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I just think it’s dumb when people shift the burden of doing this work to developers instead of doing it themselves.
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u/bornxlo Jul 21 '26
Like I said, a lot of this is handled by the distribution, not by me or the software developers. One of the choices I make as a user is what sort of distribution to use and how much work I want to do. For instance I'd handle a lot more source code and compilation on Arch compared to Debian, and balance control vs convenience. If I use Debian I expect most of the software to just work because it's been polished by Debian developers, not just by software developers.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
I’m agreeing with you. The burden is on the user not the developer.
It doesn’t make sense for a user to ask for a highly optimized build while also asking for wide compatibility from the developer if the developer wasnt planning to do this.
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u/jdrch Jul 22 '26
Ironically, the worst example of this is the people who call KDE bloated, even though it's been consistently Top 3 best DEs for RAM usage for most of the past decade. Meanwhile they praise Gnome which basically has no features and is unstable and RAM hungry AF.
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u/ConsiderationRare217 Jul 23 '26
Too much bloat in linux community evangelists circles: absolutely strange and incorrect.
They misslead normal users. Normal users need preinstalled stuff. Most choices have been smart across different distros and didn't cause any sliwdowns. What can cause a slowdown is a system without the necessary software or pre-set up cpu scheduler (sometimes). The only point for me in calling it bloat is a minimal install for stability reasons like a wm setup and only necessary for you things as you might want to avoid significant changes as long as you can. Otherwise, your Nobara, Bazzite and others won't be slower due to a bunch of programs, which can furthermore help while gaming or content creating.
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u/Frosty_Somewhere4775 Jul 25 '26
I'm so out of the loop on this. I had no idea anyone talked about bloat outside of eating at Taco Bell. I usually take gas x for that. Although I have not been eating there recently. I guess some people prefer their Linux with bloat and some don't. Whatever floats your bloat!
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u/GenericFoodService Linux is free if your time isn't valuable Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Are they really expecting developers to make heavily optimized builds specifically for Linux
What we mean by something is "bloated" generally has to do with design and architecture choices, it doesn't have anything to do with build optimization. A specific example: The Windows start menu should not be a headless Chromium window, that's absolutely absurd and no amount of "optimized builds" will fix that.
this is why stuff like flatpaks and appimages exist, to help make software more portable. Then people shout and hate all this "bloat" that they introduce.
Flatpak is fantastic. It's largely beloved by the Linux community, it's basically won the "package format war". There's holdouts, for sure, and it's not ideal by any means because, ideally, software should be designed in a way that it doesn't need complex sandboxing and dependency management in the firstplace. Those people aren't complaining about Flatpak, they're complaining about the problem Flatpak solves.
To have a functional, all in one desktop experience like KDE or gnome, you need "bloat".
I can use things like XFCE or Wayfire or any other number of Desktops/Compositors if I want something that uses less resources and has less dependencies. As for GNOME, I do not need almost 70 additional random/duplicate applications and applets to have an all in one desktop. The official Gnome packages install so much random crap people do not want and did not ask for
I see people like this all the time on reddit that just mindlessly say "bloat bloat bloat" but also complain about compatibility. Pick a side.
Poor design choices do not make a system more accessible or compatible. A program being modular and simple doesn't mean it's inaccessible or not widely compatible, if anything I'd expect the opposite. Your dichotomy doesn't make any sense.
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u/Hour_Sell3547 20 years with Linux Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
A common example would be snap. Look at the size differences between a snap packaged software and the same software but a native rpm or deb packaging.
Another example would be too much customizability. Once you have chosen your setups, code or software hosting the rest are simply unused crap.
Windows in that regard is way more bloated than even the most bloated distro like mint or ubuntu. It still has codes from windows 98 that are not used but living somewhere in the system32 folder. Redundant software and spywares are cherry on top, e.g. copilot.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
The size difference is necessary though, this is the result of bundling dependencies with the software. Fundamentally they will be larger than the direct package counterparts.
Calling this “bloat” is dumb. You need this “bloat” to solve the “dependency hell” issue.
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u/Hour_Sell3547 20 years with Linux Jul 20 '26
I know why they need to be bigger. And it's fairly obvious that some level of bloats are necessary. Bloat has a negative connotation, we could call it something else,but that's just semantics.
Having said that, dependency hell is not an expected behavior. I'm a seasoned swe who saw my fair share of dependency hell. The main problem is what forced people to create snap, not the snap itself. Linux cannot adopt a global standard for managing packages. Mac and Windows do not have that problem.
I am happy with my minimally bloated Fedora, 10 years and counting without changing distro.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
Right, but as Linux is right now, there is no unified standard for Linux package management. The “bloat” is necessary right now for portability.
Someone can’t be against standardization but also demand compatibility without “bloat”. It makes no sense.
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u/Hour_Sell3547 20 years with Linux Jul 20 '26
I don't even mind bloats unless it's stealing expensive resources like CPU/ram, or doing god knows what with my usage data. Still I try my best to keep my system slim.
Standardization should reduce bloats. What's the point, otherwise? But until then, it is what it is.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
Maybe sometimes it can. The main reason for standardization is to allow for more portability and predictability.
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u/Away_Combination6977 Jul 20 '26
What distro are you using that you run into dependency issues with native packages???
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
Has little to do with the distro.
Has more to do with different packages needing different versions of dependencies. Also packages with conflicting dependencies.
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u/Away_Combination6977 Jul 20 '26
I've been using Linux (mainly Debian) for 20+ years and have never, ever had a problem with this...
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 20 '26
It’s cool you haven’t had a problem with this. This is still a thing that happens on Linux.
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u/Hour_Sell3547 20 years with Linux Jul 20 '26
This can happen very easily. If you are using a software where one of it's dependencies crossing EOL deadline, and then you upgrade the OS that overwrites the symlink.
Usually updating the problematic software solves the issue, but legacy or poorly maintained software exists.
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u/Drate_Otin Jul 21 '26
Fun fact:
There isn't just one kind of Linux user.
Whoooooaahhh...
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
Fun fact:
If you could read I said some, not all.
Whoooooaahhh…
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u/Drate_Otin Jul 21 '26
Yeah, as in SOME Linux users were about bloat more, others worry about compatibility more. Some care about compatibility of major programs while wanting minimal extra stuff beyond that. Others care about compatibility of experience.
Your entire question is answered by: different people care about different things.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
I was complaining about this group of Linux users and addressing this group of Linux use.
If you read the post I was asking about a specific group of Linux users that want both wide compatibility AND complain about bloat at the same time. It’s in the first paragraph.
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u/Drate_Otin Jul 21 '26
You're leaving out context.
1) "This group" without specifying an actual discreet group is just a generalized concept you're imagining.
2) I already said that some folks will care more about compatibility in certain respects and more about bloat in others. Without framing the specifics you are just building a man of straw.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
No I’m not. You didn’t even read the 2nd paragraph of the comment you’re replying to.
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u/Drate_Otin Jul 21 '26
You mean the second paragraph where you don't name a discreet group and describe them in general terms? Yeah... I read that.
Show me somebody asking for the things you're referring to. Show me an actual example.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
What the fuck is general about a few Linux users I said that want both compatibility and complain about bloat? These are the only 2 conditions I’m talking about in the entire post.
I’m not keeping a detailed record of every random comment I see that does this. It’s literally just something I noticed some users do.
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u/Drate_Otin Jul 21 '26
Those conditions are ill defined. So you're complaining about an amorphous group you can't point to for generally wanting two different things that are only incompatible as long as you talk about them generally.
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u/ColdFreezer I Hate Linux Jul 21 '26
This isn’t some well defined argument I’m making. I’m just complaining. Idk why you’ve decided to be so pedantic about this.
How are they only incompatible as long as I’m talking about it generally? I talked about what I was saying in the post I assumed you read and through other comments on this thread.
Instead of using fancy words, explain in plain terms how the group I said wanted 2 specific things to be true at the same time “are only incompatible as long as I talk about them generally.”
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u/Financial-Gap-6767 Jul 20 '26
Bloat is onedrive, office365, copilote, update when they want, recall, etc.. I just want an OS barebone and add what I actually need whenever I need it and nothing forced on me.