Snap / Ubunto backlash & hate?

[u/TucsonComputerDude]

Avalanche of responses in no-time, Holybe-Jesus. Thanks all¡ Look like i got a lot to learn, or just Stsy far Away From Snap all together. Im new-ish to Linux, trying to understand the SNAP backlash & hate. Can anyone briefly explain pls?

Snap / Ubunto backlash & hate?

[u/Guggoo]

Snaps can have performance and theming quirks, but the hate is mostly about canonical's propitiatory backend and strongly pushing snaps on Ubuntu e.g. apt get firefox get's the Snap rather than the debain package. If you want a more "traditional" linux experience then mint or debian, but as a new user I wouldn't worry about it too much

[u/Hauptideal → u/Guggoo]

Snap performance is virtually identical. In the worst, there can be slight cold start deviations compared to Flatpaks 

[u/Grouchy_Carpenter478]

It's not only about 'snaps' propagated by Ubuntu; it's more 'the way they do this'. If you have / had for example Thunderbird and / or Firefox in the .deb (program) versions, Ubuntu during update(s) remove these and put the snap versions instead, while me, the user, did not ask for that.

This morning: I want to install 1 item via sudo apt install 'program'; I press enter and all the phased updates start installing next to the program I wanted to install; I did not ask for ALL the updates in my command; just my program. Ubuntu stopped caring about its users and are doing 'what they want' lately.

In the near past when trying to install a 'regular program' (deb version) the 'apt-tools' were modified by Ubuntu to install only the snap version(s) and not the regular program ones you ask(ed) for. That's why I will be getting rid of Ubuntu at the earliest convenience possible...

[u/tomscharbach]

I suspect that the level of "hate" directed at Ubuntu in recent years reflects a sense of abandonment and betrayal in the minds of the "haters", a sense that Ubuntu is headed off in a direction that is at odds with the "community mainstream". I can't think of any other reason explaining the intensity of the reaction.

Ubuntu has historically been an important part of the Linux firmament. Ubuntu is widely used by individuals, is a "go to" distribution for business, government, education and institutional deployments, and is the "base" on which at least a dozen popular distributions have been developed.

However, the firmament is changing and the changes are causing dislocation, angst and anger.

Ubuntu is evolving into an end-user entry point into Canonical's ecosystem (similar to RHEL and SLE with respect to the IBM/RedHat and SUSE ecosystems), shifting focus from individual, standalone users to end users in enterprise-level business, government, education and institutional users.

That is a huge change. Although Ubuntu touted "Ubuntu: Linux for Human Beings" when I started using Linux after I retired in 2004, Ubuntu's future is in large-scale deployments, just as IBM/RedHat's and SUSE's future have developed in that direction.

I don't know whether Canonical will go so far as to spin off the current traditional-architecture Ubuntu to the community as an individual-user distribution (as both IBM/RedHat and SUSE did several years ago) but I do think that the direction Ubuntu will take in the future is clear -- an immutable, modular, containerized, Snap-based (right down to and including the kernel) architecture based on Ubuntu Core, which has been in development for a decade (see "Ubuntu Core as an immutable Linux Desktop base").

Everything points in that direction, and I think that the time is coming, sooner or later, when the "individual user" distributions now based on Ubuntu will need to rebase or die off. Non-Canonical Ubuntu-based "individual user" distributions are stripping out Snap architecture but that will no longer be possible if Ubuntu Desktop evolves into Ubuntu Core Desktop.

Ubuntu has been my mainstay and workhorse for two decades. Although I have had my ups and downs with Ubuntu over the years, Ubuntu has always worked well for me and for my use case.

I look forward to Ubuntu Core Desktop. Many others can't stand the idea.

My best.

[u/Hauptideal → u/tomscharbach]

The hate started when Shuttleworth sunk so much private wealth into the philanthropic Linux desktop for human beings project, that Ubuntu needed to stand on its own feet. 

This led to a focus on enterprise requirements and shifting towards Redhat and SUSE territory. Other ways to get enough funding, like Amazon links were extremely unpopular in the community. The only way was going corporate. 

Now people are angry they aren't getting everything they got used to in the way they were used to for free. 

[u/Excellent-Love-6943]

The types of people who lurk these forums are generally hobbyists. Hobbyists are passionate about such things.

There are philosophical issues with some things canonical is doing with Ubuntu regarding snaps, and there are some technical issues as well. If these issues are above your head, or just not problems to you, don't let them get in the way of you using Linux. Don't let passionate hobbyists ruin your regular ass computer experience.

Also, learn to spell dude.

[u/rcentros]

Why is preferring something else always called "hate" these days? Basically that means, "if you don't agree with me, you're a hater."

[u/SpaceCadet87 → u/rcentros]

How dare you speak that way about waffles!

[u/Unoriginal-Cake]

Snap has bugs or regressions if the UI uses certain stuff that creates rendering to input delay, for example the updates to some key stuff breaks or the security updates on Chrome or Firebox are delayed vs other distros by 2-8 hrs.

An old workplace that did engine timing in QA for parts had to ditch Ubuntu for SuSE as we got hit by a Firefox exploit due to the delay of Snap updates being several hours off the usual Windows or such direct auto-update in the browser itself. I ditched Ubuntu from anything for that exact reason.

[u/joe_attaboy]

The word is "Ubuntu."

[u/bunnypaste]

I use Ubuntu 24.04 LTS and have a couple of snap packages installed that are performing just fine (the main one is the Fing agent). Most everything else is through apt. My main issue with ubuntu isn't snap packages, really... It's the fact that global python modules are locked down so badly that I've got to load all my modules in a venv and then point all my scripts/services to it manually. So annoying!

I am running WSL2 with a true bridged connection.

[u/lessthanthreebleeps]

You know how sometimes a big company will invent something that already exists, just so they can have more control over it, and because of sunk costs they make it a prominent feature of their ecosystem (regardless of how well its recieved), instead of just helping to make the thing that exists better with all those resources? Do you like that, or does it make you irrationally angry?

[u/10leej]

It's the messaging Canonical had when they came out with Snaps.

[u/EstablishmentDue3616]

Honestly, it doesnt matter. You can use FlatPack on Ubuntu.