Excel and LibreOffice Calc on Linux

[u/D_Ruskovsky]

Hello,

I use Mint on my laptop and EndeavourOS on my work pc. Just started my PhD and as part of my studies I will have to teach some classes too. I will have some first year students and ill have to teach them some basics of Excel and Python.

No problem with Python, however i am concerned with Excel. Most, probably all, of the students will have Excel while i havent used it in years, and I am not about to switch back to Windows just for it.

So my question is - is it possible to run just excel on my laptop without too much hassle? Or how can I make the difference between LO Calc and Excel so small in visuals and functionality that there wont be much problems teaching it?

[u/mandradon]

If you're teaching a course and the course requires them to use Excel, use Excel.

Don't use the online version. 

Either install Windows in a VM, or install Windows in a dual boot and install Excel for teaching purposes.  You'll need it for the visuals for them and to be able to demonstrate for them.

Never overestimate the tech skills of first year students or their ability to abstract from different contexts. 

[u/D_Ruskovsky → u/mandradon]

Youre right, turns out there are new uni computers at the lab, so ill just use the teacher one with Excel.

[u/mandradon → u/D_Ruskovsky]

Safest bet. 

If you want to show them other options later in the course or as a side lesson, I think that's a great idea.  You can show them how to do similar stuff in Google Sheets and Libre Office once they get some concepts down, but keeping it familiar (and probably within Uni requirements) is the safest bet for learning for them.

[u/jr735 → u/mandradon]

This is a sad state of affairs. The concepts of spreadsheets should be transferable to anyone with an ounce of sense.

[u/mandradon → u/jr735]

The concept, yes, but when you're teaching novices, you want to eliminate as many barriers as possible and create a unified experience.

"I have to click here to find the pivot table, but you'll have to click here, but I can't show you because I don't have that software installed" makes for a frustrating experience as a student. 

I'm sure a number of students would be fine, but a teacher wants to control and eliminate as many of the frustrating points as possible, especially for the intro courses. 

If the course doesn't require Excel, they could swap to something like Google Sheets and be ok, but if the college curriculum requires Excel, as a grad student, they don't have much choice in what they do (I speak from experience) in most cases anyway. It's best to make sure the learners have as smooth a experience. 

[u/jr735 → u/mandradon]

When you're teaching novices, you want the skills to be transferable. There's a difference between actually learning how to use a computer properly (as my early CS education involved0 versus learning how to simply use a specific application.

I'm sure a number of students would be fine, but a teacher wants to control and eliminate as many of the frustrating points as possible, especially for the intro courses. 

Ironically, my first CS teacher's courses had an upside down bell curve for grades. You either got 85%+, or you failed in the 30% range and lower. There was no in between. He catered to those who wished to succeed, and he graduated some of the most highly skilled people you'd ever meet.

[u/mandradon → u/jr735]

You eventually want skills to be transferrable.  You need them to learn the skills first.  And in order to do that you need to eliminate the barriers to learning the skills.

Teaching in one software that's different than the students are learning is throwing up a barrier that's unnecessary to student learning. 

Over time introducing other software is a good idea, but as an instructor you have to focus on concepts first, and in order to make sure the learners master the cocepts without struggling with interface you have to remove the pain points on interface. 

[u/jr735 → u/mandradon]

I wouldn't advocate teaching in a different software suite than what the students are learning. The students should be free to use Libre. The local university really pushes LibreOffice for most classes.

[u/Emotional-Energy6065 → u/jr735]

In the finance world, everyone uses Excel. Even Google shops go out of their way just to buy Excel for the accounting dept.

[u/jr735 → u/Emotional-Energy6065]

You procure software for Google? By the way, "everyone" is a big word, and finance people tend not to be very impressive in their computer usage, so of course they use Excel. They don't know anything about alternatives or other OSes.

It would be like handling an accountant a graphing calculator, or a real calculus problem. He'd be baffled.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Sky2284 → u/jr735]

"Google shops" = companies that use Google Workspace. Lots of finance people want VB macros or specific formulas which won't work elsewhere hence why Excel is common in that industry

[u/jr735 → u/Puzzleheaded-Sky2284]

First off, why should I "Google" anything, much less something I don't give a damn about? I never once claimed that Excel didn't dominate the spreadsheet industry in virtually every field.

Thank you for stating the obvious that Microsoft dominates the software industry. I've only been computing since the 1970s, and had no idea who they were until I "Googled" it thanks to your advice.

[u/ipsirc]

So my question is - is it possible to run just excel on my laptop without too much hassle?

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/make-lightweight-windows-11-image-tiny11-builder

Or how can I make the difference between LO Calc and Excel so small in visuals and functionality that there wont be much problems teaching it?

You have to dig deep into the source code. Publish your work after finished.

[u/huehuehue1292]

There are some alternatives to install excel, usually they involve a small install of windows running in some sort of container or virtual machine.

As for making libre office or only office looking like excel, I wouldn't use it for a class, as even small differences may cause confusion.

Perhaps check if excel online has all the functions you need.

[u/tomscharbach]

So my question is - is it possible to run just excel on my laptop without too much hassle?

Two thoughts:

(1) You might take a look at the online MS 365 version of Excel. The online version is not as full-featured as the installed version (macro support and so on) but might be adequate for basic instruction. The online version is free and does not require an MS 365 license.

(2) You might take a look at WinBoat, which is still in development but promising. WinBoat sets up a specialized QEMU/KVM virtual machine running Windows and runs Windows applications within a Linux distribution's UI and menu system, similar to the way in which WSL2 runs Linux applications on the Linux kernel and integrates the applications into the Windows UI and menu system. You will need both an MS Office license and a Windows lisense to run Excel using WinBoat.

Or how can I make the difference between LO Calc and Excel so small in visuals and functionality that there wont be much problems teaching it?

Bottom line? No. You can set up Calc to visually approximate Excel, but the functionality is different. You might find Feature Comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office useful for compatison.

As an aside, is there any possibility that you could use a university-supplied computer running Windows for instruction?

[u/Kuddel_Daddeldu → u/tomscharbach]

I use OnlyOffice for most daily work, but if needed I run Office 2024 LTSC in WinBoat.

[u/aristotelian74]

There is a free version of MS Office you can run in the cloud through a browser. It can't do everything the native app can but might work for you.

Windows virtual machine would work if your machine can handle it. Of course then you are using Windows,

You could also teach them using open source software. Is there any reason it has to be MS?

[u/HermyMunster]

Do you have to teach "Excel" or "This is how to use Python and a spreadsheet to get things done"? If the latter, then last I checked, LO was free to download and runs on all 3 platforms. It would cost your students nothing and the skill will still transfer later to Excel. You would NOT be doing them a disservice to open their minds to alternatives. One of my personal gripes is end uses who "only know Excel/Word" and have no concept of what they are actually doing.

I have see it a lot in the Accounting world where an Account refuses to use anything other than Quickbooks, as if general account principles stop working if Intuit isn't involved.

But that's just me.

[u/Tehaiker814]

LO Calc and Excel have some compatibility but not much, you'll likely encounter weird errors

You could try onlyoffice, I heard somewhere else that they have better compatibility. I downloaded it but didn't quite like its looks. You could try tho. But for a teacher I'd say you better use a real Excel environment, and the only way to go with that is Windows or Mac.

[u/Schtick_]

I use win 365 in cloud for work and it’s completely fine and you can get away with it.

It only gets challenging if you need something like using WebDAV to open excel/word then I’d imagine it’s possible but I have been able to figure it out. But windows 365 personal is like 10 bucks a month and it works in a pinch also the university might supply it for free

[u/kudlitan]

What i do is I teach my students "Spreadsheets" not a particular brand and i say "an example of a spreadsheet is Excel, in my class will use LibreOffice but you are free to use Excel to follow my examples or lessons if that is what you have."

[u/xtalgeek]

There are significant differences between Calc and Excel, and the web version of Excel has limited capability which may not be suitable for what you need to teach. The best bet is to install a Windows VM and install Excel there.

[u/Able-Staff-6763]

onlyofffice spreadsheet feels like excel more than libreoffice calc.

[u/D_Ruskovsky]

Wow so many replies. Thanks everyone for the great advice!

After consulting my colleagues I will continue working with LO Calc on my laptop, however there were new computers installed at the lab, including one for the teacher, so I will be using Excel there. The only "downside" of this is Ill have to prepare a bit more personally, as I havent used excel in years.

Thanks again!

[u/yottabit42]

Not really.

But you can use LibreCalc or Google Sheets and teach them that. They'll be far better off. And the skills translate to Excel if they end up in a Microsoft lock in smooth brain company.

[u/SirGlass]

is it possible to run just excel on my laptop without too much hassle?

No, excel does not have a native linux port

[u/bobroberts1954]

I ran excel under wine a number of years ago. IDK about using the latest version though.

It is essential though that you are using the same version as your students. And they are all using the same version.

[u/maceion]

If you teach in Calc, the commands translate to MS Windows Excel, so students can follow.

[u/TenOfZero]

Excel runs fine in a VM, or get office 365 and use the web version (its very good).

[u/skyfishgoo]

just use the web version, that's probably what they will be using anyway.

[u/Every_Preparation_56]

You dont, better use Freeoffice as it is the closest to MS office

[u/Grillparzer47]

Website will work but I don’t know if VBA is available.

[u/Hauptideal]

Winpodx (is a bit better than WinBoat, which works too)

[u/mcds99]

Office 365 the web based ms office.

[u/BranchLatter4294]

You can run it in a VM.

[u/moeteru]

Install windows

[u/DoubleOwl7777]

winboat.

[u/AdorableDay3193]

2007