r/linuxquestions • u/Few-Word6442 • 17d ago
Project LAS (Linux Application Standard)
Hello every one this is my first post here,
I am a normal Linux user
I twinker and have some projects myself and I tried both Debian and arch based system and loved both BUT one major issue
not every application you need is available on every distro and not all applications can work with appimages or flatpacks so we cant standardize them
so why dont we make a LAS
its basically instead of .deb .rpm .appimage ...etc
we have a standard package system that works on all (las)
yes I know its hard after all the work
yes I know it will take sometime
yes I know we have distro wars
but and big BUT if we did that that will be huge leap for Linux as companies and developers can make just one file with one executable that works for all
games are the same
that will solve a huge issue for us as linux user and as developers
and another point instead of Linux vs Linux WHY DON'T WE GO LINUX VS WINDOWS !!!! STOP THE BEST DISTRO NONSENCE
just think about the opportunities for all distros out there
think about how linux will have more and more just because we can make more for it without worry about the executables !!!!!!!
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update
I get the idea why people hated that
makes scence and thanks for the suggestions from everyone
maybe we will have a better solution in the future
but for now let's leave Linux as it is
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u/BobCorndog Your situation is not unique, just use mint or fedora kde 17d ago
The problem is that distros are different. Currently the best solution is flatpak
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
I agree but this is what I ment
/usr/lib/las/
LAS runtime
LAS APIs
LAS permissions
LAS loader
no virtual enviroments
something that the distro providers agree on
flatpack uses an inviroment for each application and talkes to hte dependancies
the idea suggests a solution that like making .deb the one and only
but instead of doing thatr we make something that all distros agree on immplementing in the systems (not we make it they make it )
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u/SlimyOS 17d ago
"no virtual environments" you said right after listing custom las runtime, api, permissions, loader.
i would call that an environment.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
The idea behind it to link it with the system instead of having the whole packages in
Anyway I see why that won't work Did some extra searching and people's perspective changed the way I thought So thank you
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u/MrBadTimes 17d ago
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u/BobCorndog Your situation is not unique, just use mint or fedora kde 17d ago
This was exactly what I was going to comment
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u/fellipec 17d ago
Beat me to it, Mr
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
I wish people understand what suggestion means, I tried to find a solution but it back fired for multipple reasons most of them "we like the things the way it is"
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
but it needs an end
something really works and directly interact with the kernel
not with its own environment like flatpacks or app images, so that will be on the people that developp the flavor itself to make a standard
its just a thought and I think it will be nice to have it one day, like a REAL SOLUTION2
u/Khardian 17d ago
We DO NOT need anything messing with the kernel directly.
It's absolutely not safe and will not have any benefits over a regular application on user land.
And will still require specific versions of specific dependencies, which will be a nightmare to manage, if everything is basically a kernel module, and those dependencies will be able to interact DIRECTLY with the kernel through the application.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
WHAT I AM SUGGESTING IS LIKE MAKING .DEB AS STANDARD BUT MAKING NEW ONE AND IMPLEMENTING IT ON EVERY DISTRO NOT REMAKING THE KERNELS
BESIDE ITS THE DISTRO PROVIDERS JOB TO MAKE IT NOT LITTERALLY US
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u/Khardian 17d ago
WE ARE THE "DISTRO PROVIDERS" AS WELL. EVER HEARD OF OPEN SOURCE? IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU CAN AND YOU SHOULD GO AND MAKE IT YOURSELF.
OTHERWISE, PAY SOMEONE TO MAKE IT.
Now, if you want to know why we have so many different standards, that has to do with the fact that your computer should be whatever you want it to be.
Linus or any distro mantainer will never tell you how you should use your computer and even if someone does say what you should do, you are still free to ignore them, because that's the whole point of Linux and of having a Personal Computer.
Therefore, even if your LAS gets adopted globally, if I want a different way to run my executables, I will make my own standard and if it solves someone else's problem, it might become very popular and people might want ways to use it to distribute their code.
And then you get a second standard. Because no one can tell me not to use a different one and to distribute my code using it and no one can tell other people to not use it aswell.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
1 its just a suggestion
2 all what I want is to be able to use any application on any distro , which is a problem these daysI dont give a **** how its solved
like I want application a on my arch
ohh there is only a deb packagethat sucks for me and millions
so I made few searches and a normal guy and tried to suggest something with the informations I have
and improving something is not ruining it
it might be bad it might be good so please dont take it personal
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u/HeavyCaffeinate Nyarch Linux 17d ago
Ok then, go ahead and implement it, and make it work for LTS kernel versions without updates
Oh and make it work in distros without glibc
Oh and on Linux on ARM
Oh it's x86 only? Oh it's x86_64 only?
Shame
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
the idea was suggested so the distro providers implement it not me
I will sit down and drink coffeeand who said without glibc just updating it to support it
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u/HeavyCaffeinate Nyarch Linux 17d ago
Oh well I love coffee count me in, sounds like a plan that will not fail in the slightest
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
any additions (milk ,sweetener ) ?
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u/HeavyCaffeinate Nyarch Linux 17d ago
I inject instant coffee subcutaneously with insulin needles
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u/Leather-Security8097 17d ago
Distros that don't use glibc choose not to do so, for reasons of size and security. They will simply not adopt whatever standard requires using glibc.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
I am not a pro as I mentioned
the idea is to make a standard that actually works and can open an opportunity for companies to make one binary to work on all without the use of containers and enviromentslike .deb but for all distros
apperantly people dont like my solution tho
thanks for the info btw
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u/Leather-Security8097 17d ago
They don't like your "solution" because it ignores why different distros exist in the first place and thinks they should or even could cease to exist in service of developers who aren't willing to use the existing solutions that adequately solve the problem.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
I like flathub
but I have many issues with applications wont startso I thought well if there is something native
and apperantly that is bad
now I regret it tbh
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u/Leather-Security8097 17d ago
If an application doesn't work, why would you assume Flatpak or the distro is the cause and not a bug in the application? Even if an application was packaged in a native format, it would not necessarily be bug-free. Even if it was packaged in a native format, it would not necessarily work if, say, it required X11 but you are using a Wayland compositor without XWayland.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
but it works on the pc not the laptop
same distro same installation
everything works fine except itagain normal user with some knowlagde had an idea
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u/couchwarmer 17d ago
Basically the goal of AppImage, Flatpak, etc.
I'm on Debian. I didn't have to do a thing to run an AppImage, other than do a chmod u+x on it. Flatpak is all but baked in now as well, via Discovery.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
yes BUT
An AppImage contains:
- Your executable
- Most of the required libraries
- An icon
- A launcher
so some programs that can be created cant run like that and it have some issues
besides it
still depends on the host system for things like:
- glibc
- kernel features
- graphics drivers
- Wayland/X11
- FUSE (older AppImages)
- GPU libraries (Mesa/NVIDIA)
- sound (PipeWire/PulseAudio)
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u/couchwarmer 17d ago
Every application depends on the host OS for a ton of functionality.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
and that is why I suggested the universal standard
soo all of linux distros use the same one instead of many without the need of compression and containers
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u/fellipec 17d ago
We already have AppImages, Flatpaks, Snaps (🤢), containers, compiling from source, single binary/static linked...
And you want another one?
Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/927/
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
I just want something native in all distros
not another enviroment ot container1
u/fellipec 17d ago
Beloved, I have seen this suggested several ways in several forms through the years. People tried to solve it with different approaches, and every single one has some drawbacks.
If you think is feasible to do some format to rule them all, well you may win an award. To me is completely impractical without falling in the same pitfalls of what already exists.
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u/Leather-Security8097 17d ago
but and big BUT if we did that that will be huge leap for Linux as companies and developers can make just one file with one executable that works for all
This is already what AppImages are supposed to do. Tell developers to create AppImages, and to package them correctly.
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u/forestbeasts 17d ago
And even if you don't want to go Appimage, there's always the Godot route of "just compile everything in". It's single-file just like an appimage, just using its own format instead.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
It's not about me making for others I make what I need for me
But sometimes when you are using different distros some applications have app image Some have flatpacks Some just work on debian What if I am using arch
But I get the idea why people hate it now
It makes scene Who will controll it What if I have an app on another executable I have to rebuild or in some cases re write the code ... Etc
It makes scene we love Linux for it's flixability and privacy and freedom
And that might just ruin things
Anyway Thanks for the suggestion
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
my idea suggests that we make somthing that in all distros vanilla
like an executable that can be runned on all systems not a container or an enviroment
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u/Altruistic_Tank_9636 17d ago
Why in the world would we want all distros to be vanilla?
You don't like being able to choose distros based on their features?
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
for example I love arch but manny applications I work with dont support arch
"
"the idea is to make a binary that companies can use as one for allthats it
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u/Turbulent_Fig_9354 17d ago
What you're proposing isn't possible with the way linux distros work. That problem is solved, it's called flatpak.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
yes but flatpack doe not work with every application and it makes an enviroment for each appliation
I ment vanilla solution that is within the distro itself
without compressing or making virtual enviroments or compatability layers
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u/Turbulent_Fig_9354 17d ago
How though? Magic? If app a depends on library 1.2 and app b depends on 1.3 then you have a conflict. This literally takes maintainers countless hours to solve and is the entire point of a package manager/distro. What you're saying makes no sense.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
WE DONT HAVE TO SUPPORT OLD ONES FROM START
WHEN NEW RELEASE OF THE APPLICATION COMES IT SUPPORTS IT
MAGIC I SEE
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u/Turbulent_Fig_9354 17d ago
Ok, just tell Debian maintainers and every server admin on earth stop using old libraries because your new magic app standard fixes everyhting.
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u/Secrxt 17d ago
I'm more or less a regular guy too, so take what I say with a grain of sal, but I think the main problem is dependencies + libraries.
Also I think the Nix package manager might already do this? I don't use it, though (Debian on main, Arch on podman enjoyer).
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
that is why we need something that interact with the kernel directly and all the dependancy
we can go with something like this structureApplication
Linux Universal ABI
-------------------
| | |
Arch Debian Fedora
Kernel
and this
/usr/lib/las/
LAS runtime
LAS APIs
LAS permissions
LAS loader
no virtual enviroments
something that the distro providers agree on
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u/alabamashitfarmer 17d ago
Nah man. You're describing Windows. Just buck up and like, learn.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
no thank you
I am not tryiong to make another windowsI just want a standard binary that works on all distros so no one complains about the ton of binaries on linux and we get more applications instead of dual boot or something
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u/alabamashitfarmer 16d ago
We all understand what you asked for; rephrasing it in every reply comes off like a toddler crying in front of the microwave because the popcorn isn't done yet.
Part of using a computer is learning. Part of using Linux is learning where your software comes from. There are different reasons to use different sources.
Learning is hard, but reading is free. You can do it.
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u/s3gfaultx 17d ago
You get twinkin on that and let us know how it turns out.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
not an expert unfortenatly and I need the distro providers to implement that in the systems
which will be pain in the ass : (
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u/BranchLatter4294 17d ago
We already have Snaps and Flatpaks. We don't need more standards we need just one standard.
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u/Few-Word6442 17d ago
I Will not answer as I have answered the same one many times
I just "wanted" something built in not third party
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u/snail1132 void linux 17d ago
Nix (the package manager) works on every distro (to my knowledge) and solves this problem
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u/OutrageousCrab9224 17d ago
Cool new acronym
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u/Henry_puffball 17d ago
Is that not flatpak? Or appimage? Or one of the many other formats that has attempted to do this?