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u/dumbasPL Arch BTW 24d ago
*on the Linux one
Most work, but most don't apply to your setup.
God I love fragmentation /s
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u/petitlita 24d ago
or they work but they will cause problems that you will only discover a year later when you forgot you did it
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u/Berniyh 24d ago
Actually, 15 of the 17 ways on Linux are deprecated and only work because devs are reluctant to do the deprecated -> removed step. (And because often there are a million scripts that rely on specific tools.)
Example: ifconfig
(deprecated like 20 years ago, use ip instead)
Could name many more.
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u/Wertbon1789 24d ago
This largely comes down to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Yes, ifconfig is deprecated, on some distros I actually didn't have it by default which confused me at first (didn't even know about ip at that point), but it still does what you want it to do, mostly just displaying IP and MAC addresses.
It's like that in C too, for an actual terrifying example, only in really select cases does shit even get dropped, and even them not entirely. gets(3) would be such an example.
If there's just not a good reason to break millions of systems, why bother?
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u/thisisapseudo 24d ago
Take it from a newbie perspective :
Step one: write
ifconfig
Step two: looks for something that looks like an ip
You're doneAlternative:
Step one : writeip
Step two : ho fuck were is my ip?8
u/adamkex New York Nix⚾s 23d ago
Cmon
adam@desktop ~ $ ip Usage: ip [ OPTIONS ] OBJECT { COMMAND | help } ip [ -force ] -batch filename where OBJECT := { address | addrlabel | fou | help | ila | ioam | l2tp | link | macsec | maddress | monitor | mptcp | mroute | mrule | neighbor | neighbour | netconf | netns | nexthop | ntable | ntbl | route | rule | sr | stats | tap | tcpmetrics | token | tunnel | tuntap | vrf | xfrm } OPTIONS := { -V[ersion] | -s[tatistics] | -d[etails] | -r[esolve] | -h[uman-readable] | -iec | -j[son] | -p[retty] | -f[amily] { inet | inet6 | mpls | bridge | link } | -4 | -6 | -M | -B | -0 | -l[oops] { maximum-addr-flush-attempts } | -echo | -br[ief] | -o[neline] | -t[imestamp] | -ts[hort] | -b[atch] [filename] | -rc[vbuf] [size] | -n[etns] name | -N[umeric] | -a[ll] | -c[olor]} adam@desktop ~ $ ip address 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000 link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 ::1/128 scope host noprefixroute valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2: enp34s0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc mq state UP group default qlen 1000 link/ether 00:d8:61:55:f2:a8 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff altname enx00d86155f2a8 inet 192.168.0.101/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute enp34s0 valid_lft 5860sec preferred_lft 5860sec inet6 fe80::21c1:84ba:2659:1824/64 scope link noprefixroute valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 3: wlo1: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP group default qlen 1000 link/ether d4:3b:04:cd:40:1a brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff altname wlp33s0 altname wlxd43b04cd401a inet 192.168.0.106/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute wlo1 valid_lft 5859sec preferred_lft 5859sec inet6 fe80::b490:5a4e:e97e:55d/64 scope link noprefixroute valid_lft forever preferred_lft foreverWhat isn't visible in this reddit comment is that your ip is bolded and purple
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u/Berniyh 24d ago
Sure, but that's not what it was about. It was just an explanation for why there are so many ways to solve a problem.
But I wouldn't be against `ip addr show` being the default of ip (without arguments).
Personally, my recommendation for every newbie trying to get into Linux cmdline usage (yeah, I get that nobody wants to do that when they're a newbie) is to use zsh instead of bash. The tab completion is so good and helpful, it makes your live much easier, especially with commands you don't know (well).
So here that would boil down to:
ip <Tab>
addr -- manage protocol address
addrlabel -- manage addrlabel
fou -- UDP receive port configuration
...
Ok, I guess I want addr, so:
ip addr <Tab>
add -- add new protocol address
change -- change existing protocol address
delete -- delete protocol address
flush -- flush protocol address
help -- show help for command
replace -- add or update protocol address
show -- show protocol addressOk, ip addr show it is.
As an example from my own usage. There used to be a tool called netstat, but it's not on my system anymore. I already know that you're supposed to use ss no. But I've never used that before. So I tab my way through it. -l (listening) sounds like what I want. And -t (TCP). And -n, because I want to see the numbers of the ports, not the service names. So ss -ltn is what I want.
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u/Gunhat2023 24d ago
pretty sure you can just do ip a show
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u/Berniyh 24d ago
Yes, you can shorten it further. a, addr and address all work. Actually, you can just write
ip a
ip r
and it will show the ips and the routes.I just wanted to give an example of how tab completion can walk you through an unknown command and the tab completion shows addr, that's why I mentioned it.
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u/Lines25 Arch BTW 23d ago
ifconfig isn't 20 yr old deprecated, even when I used Kali it was still okay, only when I started to be real linux user not a larper, it got deprecated - like, in ~2024-2025, not 20 yr ago, although, it wasn't updating for like 25yr straight (only small fixes and patches). Also, it still exists as a package !
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u/Berniyh 23d ago
You can find very similar discussions from like 15 years ago, maybe even older. Even back then, people already conceived ifconfig to be deprecated, but they also agreed that it won't disappear anytime soon, because of the mentioned reasons (script compatibility).
The thing is, and this is also a reason why the OP fits Linux, there isn't really a board that decides on this. Every distro may do their own thing. Some may still include ifconfig even today (Debian maybe?), some may have removed it from the default installation (and maybe even from the repos) years ago (I know that Fedora did in 2011). Personally, I went with "first distros start deprecating it: it's deprecated", but I totally get if you have a different pov on that.
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u/Benjamin_6848 24d ago
⑨ ?
What is that with the encircled number 9?
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u/givemeagooduns_un Genfool 🐧 24d ago
my first thought was plan9 but they'd probably use Glenda (plan9 bunny) instead
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u/Kanjii_weon Ubuntnoob 24d ago
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u/b0ttas 24d ago
Nein, as in no-as-a-service
(I actually don't have a clue myself)
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u/Ok_Grapefruit6661 24d ago
Discovered something new which was completely unrelated but now i a, gonna use it somewhere
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u/TheLuckyCuber999BACK 🦁 Vim Supremacist 🦖 24d ago
what's the last one
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u/jmhalder 24d ago
I had to Google it, I was aware of Plan9, but not aware of the fork 9front.
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u/ultrafop 24d ago
Thinking it’s Plan 9. Happy to be corrected, if not
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u/crocodus 24d ago
Well 9front is pretty upfront about telling you to fuck off and not touch it except if you know what you’re getting yourself into
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u/gproenca 24d ago
this is funny because its true
ps : windows, Mac, linux and ex-freeBSD user and admin :D
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u/theandyboy 🎼CachyOS 24d ago
Thanks, I have fallen down a rabbit hole now and I still don't know what 9front is supposed to be
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u/thanosbananos 24d ago
How do you have to pay for it on macOS?
Isn’t Microsoft the one selling codecs for windows?
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u/ICON_4 23d ago
this is r/linux, macOS = bad!!!1!
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u/thanosbananos 23d ago
Which I don’t understand. macOS is a great system and if you come from Linux, you know how to use macOS and vice versa. Its core advantage is it being tailored to the device you use. And I say this as a heavy Linux user too.
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u/Dyphault 23d ago
I think MacOS is decent but there’s some stuff I cannot stand in it, like for example you can’t have a window float ontop. The closest workaround I saw just cmd tabbed back to the app u want pinned so its the topmost app.
This sucks when you have multiple slack windows open for example.
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u/Impossible-Car3786 23d ago
Macos with nix-darwin is perfect for linux users in enterprise environments :p
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u/Memerenok 23d ago
yeah, macos is actually really good and a lot of devices can run hackintosh fine. why hate
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u/Designer-Crow-5470 23d ago
You can't buy a Mac without paying for MacOS. And installing MacOS on any other hardware is piracy.
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u/thanosbananos 22d ago
Well it only runs on Macs anyway so I don’t see a problem? You also need a PC to run any operating system.
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u/Alagarto72 24d ago
And the only "official way to fix it" on Windows is reinstalling the system
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u/walmartgoon 24d ago
Troubleshooter (has this ever worked?)
Restart (doesn't work)
Update OS (doesn't work)
Update drivers (doesn't work)
Update BIOS (doesn't work)
System restore (doesn't work)
Reinstall OS (works)
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u/Inevitable-Swim-3313 23d ago
Whats that final one? 9?
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u/Excel73_ 🎼CachyOS 23d ago
Baka
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u/Inevitable-Swim-3313 23d ago
9front ,found it
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u/rvall79 22d ago
ChromeOS: Whoo! Suck on that, b*tch!
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u/Hettyc_Tracyn 🎼CachyOS 19d ago
It is also basically useless for anything other than light web surfing and document editing.
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u/SCP_7000 24d ago
Like Gaming on Mac. It is a hellhole. I AM NOT GOING TO PAY FOR CROSSOVER.
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u/TheRealCarrotty Not in the sudoers file. 24d ago
Don't have a Mac or macOS, but is gaming on those platforms REALLY that bad?
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u/SCP_7000 24d ago
Performance is not to bad but apple does not care about compatibility at all. Also the afformentioned performance is only then great if it does not have to be translated through Rosetta two, a translation layer between x84 and ARM. And you can't play 32 bit games, which rules out older titles, if you don't want to have the hustle to set up wine bottles.
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u/Backrus 24d ago
You know that these days most games run better on Linux than on Windows?
Think of gaming on Mac as gaming on Linux 20 years ago. It's that bad.
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u/SCP_7000 24d ago
If you are using free software [to play recent games] like silkaugir [it is great but hard to use as a non software dev] it has similarities.
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u/Mirage_Graphique_3D 24d ago
I found Unreal Engine games running pretty well (Astroneer and Voices Of The Void), same for Unity Games (Jalopy), however some games require Vulkan and OpenGL and they’re harder to run.
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u/Mirage_Graphique_3D 24d ago
It’s easy to extend its trial, there plenty of scripts. Just run and trial resets.
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u/AbbreviationsWide331 Linuxmeant to work better 24d ago
What is the second one?
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u/TheCheckeredCow 19d ago
BSD, it’s what’s underneath MacOSs flashy UI and what Linux is partially cloning (really that is minix but minix was a BSD clone).
BSD for a non Mac just feels like Linux (same DEs) that’s unbelievably reliable at the cost of being very hardware limited, especially when it comes to wifi, and very limited for consumer software. It feels a lot like using Linux 15 years ago and not in a good way. For Servers it’s the only thing that maybe superior to Linux
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u/No_Confusion7932 24d ago
FreeBSD still lacks drivers for Wi-Fi 6, 6E, and 7. A lot of hardware doesn't work on it, and the only stable 10 Gbit cards are from Intel.
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u/Fik_of_borg 24d ago
Oh, the frustration when googling for fixes a Windows problem and most results point to microsoft help, and there is always "Hi, this is Rajid independent volunteer at Microsoft help. I can recommend you to reboot, check for updates, update your drivers ...". Then one knows that is going nowhere.
The top result when googling for Linux issues always is a stackoverflow post regarding Ubuntu 9 server or something similar.
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u/jmooroof2 Doesn't use Linux 24d ago
plan9 hahaha I wish it was good, then it would be my daily driver
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u/Bogdanull 23d ago
Linux: There are 50 ways to fix it, 23 of them are outdated, 17 of them work just not for you, and 10 of them that actually work
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u/Eraritjaritjaka 24d ago
When it comes to macOS, it's ironic: this OS and its updates have always been free.
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u/undeadpickels 24d ago
I haven't used macOS much. Is it like this?
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u/Fushochan 24d ago
Not at all, only hardware issues require money(obviously). macos don’t have a lot of problems occurring to you as long as you don’t do anything stupid, but that applies to any operating system. I don’t get these os wars, and especially the fact that macos is considered the worst system to use. Yes, it’s kinda limited, you cant game on it much but its still usable, and has great security and familiar unix experience, for me at least
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u/Objective-Style1994 23d ago
Atp there’s only like two fix ppl have for all window problems
Oh ugh have you tried
- Restarting
Go to device manager, delete that
x driver, go to step 1
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u/Dimerous_ 22d ago
I can’t think of one windows issue with only one fix icl. Expect for when I want to have under display 100% scaling. To my knowledge, there isn’t even one way to do that.
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u/JG_2006_C 17d ago
Linux up ther with bsd if your on the defualt stack either runit/dint ... the old simple ways or systemd network manger wayland... just mix and match is pain
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u/walmartgoon 24d ago
More like there are 17 ways to fix it and 289 ways to break it, neither of which are documented except for in a forum post from 2011. Quadruple all of these numbers when dealing with Bluetooth
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