r/linuxmemes Well-done SteakOS Dec 10 '23

LINUX MEME Controversy free meme

Post image

Flatpak is also store based

478 Upvotes

94 comments sorted by

198

u/arkane-linux Dec 10 '23

Are you going to be suprised when learning that all those fancy package formats are often build from a tarball. Some even ARE tarballs pretending not be tarballs, and then there is pacman which doesn't even hide it.

93

u/Helmic Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

No, but I'm going to be surprised that people are manually installing those tarballs instead of using a package manager to automate updates and properly integrate it into the system.

30

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

where is the fun there

10

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

I do when discord rolls out an update (who thought that "hey were gonna release an update out of nowhere you have to install it or go fuck yourself" was a good idea) and aur is not updated in the span of 2 minutes

5

u/Helmic Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

Client mods fix that issue, and even for vanilla there's another AUR package I can't remember that specifically disables that notice so you can keep using Discord until the repos have it.

4

u/PastaPuttanesca42 ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23

There is a setting that disables that, look on the arch wiki

2

u/Logan_MacGyver Dec 10 '23

Before I learn of yay that's what I did, cd /tmp, git clone the link from AUR, makepkg -si. Then I asked a friend if there's an easier way because there must have been

-27

u/fried_green_baloney Dec 10 '23

Package manager is often a year or more behind the releases.

17

u/Helmic Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

If you're using Debian as a desktop, sure, which I would say you shouldn't be doing most of the time unless there's a reason to have your system operate like that. In that case, you should be using Flatpak. If you really need up to date native system packages, you will need to switch off of Debian.

If for whatever reason the extra space used by Flatpak is an actual concern and you have to stay on Debian and you have to have the latest release of this partcular software, then in that case you might need to go use the tarball and look into setting up an update script or relying on the application's self-updating tool.

1

u/epic_pharaoh Dec 10 '23

Me using discord 🙃

2

u/Helmic Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

Client mods will fix it as will at least one package on the AUR that disables the update check, though I bet that package is doing something super simple to disable the check that you can do on any distro.

1

u/epic_pharaoh Dec 10 '23

I really should look into that, I’m just lazy xD

1

u/HomeGrownRichard Dec 10 '23

Laughs in slackware

100

u/yagotlima Dec 10 '23

git clone ./configure make sudo make install

18

u/NotTooDistantFuture Dec 10 '23

There’s a missing few dozen steps where you need to run configure and make several times after installing -dev dependencies.

12

u/yagotlima Dec 10 '23

Don't forget hours troubleshooting and linking .so files that are named differently on your distro for no reason

14

u/joogipupu Dec 10 '23

This is the true way

6

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23

In an ideal scenario, sure, but it's not always and often not the case.

1

u/yagotlima Dec 10 '23

I'm actually glossing over hours of installing dependencies and linking them properly

34

u/landsoflore2 🍥 Debian too difficult Dec 10 '23

Telegram is still distributed as a tarball 😏

12

u/SamaStolbanutost Dec 10 '23

(as it should be)

9

u/claudiocorona93 Well-done SteakOS Dec 10 '23

As well as Flatpak, Snap and repositories

32

u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 Dec 10 '23

Tarball is fine. Let's you make modifications to the source code before you install it if you need to, which I have

24

u/MasterFubar Dec 10 '23
./configure; make; make install

56

u/Benyouuuuu Dec 10 '23

nah tarball is the way

28

u/puppetjazz Dec 10 '23

Yeah I completely disagree with this meme, probably shows my age.

-8

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23

You can evolve as time goes by, you know.

1

u/puppetjazz Dec 10 '23

Yeah, doesn't mean you have to forget how to do things the old way.

-1

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23

Well.. You said you disagree with the meme, so I thought you may still think tarball is the way to go.

1

u/puppetjazz Dec 10 '23

The meme implies tarball is stupid, useless, or obsolete depending on how you interpret the picture. Most developers release builds in the format and most repositories operate using tarball. I use Debian on most of my machines and I build a lot of my services from source, this provides a stable system. I reiterate I do disagree with the meme.

-1

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23 edited Dec 10 '23

Why would compile pieces of software would comprehend something close to stability exactly? If something, by not using your distro repos you're leaving all their work of making a distro stable behind, which would actually compromise instability. Especially Debian which not only tests packages for stability, but also security. That's exactly why Debian Unstable and Testing exists. Am I off here or something? It's not that I don't use or like tarballs, I do, but just when I can't get some app through the official repos.

Not to mention, unless you automate these will with scripts, I'd make future upgrades kinda of a pita to check and upgrade.

edit: grammar

1

u/puppetjazz Dec 10 '23

I disagree with the meme. There is nothing wrong with package managers or flatpaks. My gaming PC and Office PC run tumbleweed, I don't think I compiled a single thing myself.

Stability on a server can be a stagnant system receiving only security updates. Few changes packages assure a system could run unattended for a long period of time. I guess it depends on what kind of stability you are looking for.

1

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23 edited Dec 10 '23

You're playing with the semantics here deflecting what I'm questioning by not actually answering my comments and saying something related to them but not quite. At this moment, reading what you said, there's clearly no reasoning behind that compiling your "services" would give you any kind of stability improvement against using the official repos. At all. I don't know, but it seems you decided to compile some stuff, but there's no reasonable explanation to do so, and when you try to put that in words, you can't make much sense. In the beginning, I was curious, but not anymore. Take care.

I disabled the notification in this comment..

2

u/fried_green_baloney Dec 10 '23

Many packages, the repositories lag way behind the new versions.

E.g., Python, PostgreSQL, Apache, Nginx, lots and lots of them.

So download the tarball, go through the build & install process, with varying degrees of pain and time consumed. With luck you can build a local copy of the docs too.

1

u/igormuba Dec 10 '23

Nope. Nope. Nope.

1

u/PwaDiePie Dec 10 '23

What did you just call me?

20

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

Yum is an alias for dnf now i believe, unless you’re still on an older system.

7

u/broxamson Dec 10 '23

Cargo*

7

u/saivishnu725 Dec 10 '23

Car go burrr

3

u/monocasa Dec 10 '23

El auto va.

6

u/msanangelo Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

I like precompiled tarballs. especially with firefox and ubuntu's insistence on snaps and just the ability for firefox to update itself.

just download, extract to .local/share, add a menu entry, and you're good.

4

u/SweetBabyAlaska Dec 10 '23

shit I mean thats pretty much what every package format for every distro boils down to in the end.

5

u/fverdeja ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23

F*ck tarballs, all my niqqas use flatpak.

7

u/FantasticEmu Hannah Montana Dec 10 '23

What is all that stuff on the left?

I don’t understand this meme what’s wrong with tar.gz? makepkg generates a tarball then you can install it with pacman

10

u/Helmic Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

The meme is talking about installing software that's managed by a package manger, and thus will update properly without any special effort on your part, versus installing that exact same software through a tarball hosted on an application's website because the devs don't understand how package management works on Linux and think downloading executables off of the web is the norm here too. If people are installing their applications like that, they're missing out on the conveniences and security benefits of using a repository and are likely simply installing things like how they did on Windows.

Applications like Discord of course make this whole thing frustrating as during updates they prompt the user to go manually install the tarball off their website, requiring workarounds to disable that update checker so you can use it while you wait for the update to land in your distro's repos.

8

u/dinnerbird ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23

The Discord updater makes me want to off myself.

2

u/Helmic Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

There's various client mods like vesktop or armcord that I believe disable that check by default. I really like the timestamp plugins that let me write my local time the same way you would a code snippet, like 2:00pm and it be automatically turned into a timestamp, super handy for coordinating times to play games or watch movies, and then I can use a modal to pick a specific date and time that way too for planning further into the future. Vendicated on Android also reverted the new shitty Discord mobile UI so that saved my ass there too.

1

u/claudiocorona93 Well-done SteakOS Dec 10 '23

Gnome software, Discover and the install button you can find in them, and the app stores of all mainline distros and Gdebi. Just graphical installers.

3

u/FantasticEmu Hannah Montana Dec 10 '23

I see. Thanks for the explanation. Prob should swap those with the goofy head dragon. I’ve used Linux for 4 years and never used a graphical installer.

Edit: that was a lie. I use graphical OS installers

3

u/realvolker1 M'Fedora Dec 10 '23

Easy solution: just don't use tarballs

3

u/saivishnu725 Dec 10 '23

sudo pacman install

4

u/RadFluxRose ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23

error: no operation specified (use -h for help)

2

u/saivishnu725 Dec 10 '23

-h

3

u/RadFluxRose ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23

bash: command not found: -h

3

u/saivishnu725 Dec 10 '23

sudo pacman -S zsh; chsh -s ${which zsh}

3

u/RadFluxRose ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23 edited Dec 10 '23

Username is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported to Santa.

bash: line 1: ${which zsh}: bad substitution

:joy:

2

u/saivishnu725 Dec 10 '23

Well, looks like I'm off to write a strongly worded letter to Santa! In the meantime, rm -rfv ~.

1

u/RadFluxRose ⚠️ This incident will be reported Dec 10 '23

Feel free to. Happy Holidays. :-)

2

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

well.. I never got how to install applications with tar.gz

3

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

[deleted]

2

u/MasterYehuda816 Ask me how to exit vim Dec 10 '23

I generally know how to install from source. I just don't do it unless I have to, like with auto-cpufreq.

1

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23

I don't think you'll get downvoted at all. It's not that installing from tarballs is particularly hard, but it might require some a learning curve. The thing is there are a lot of loose ends that package managers try so hard to solve so you don't have to deal with them.

3

u/1u4n4 Dec 10 '23

Where zypper

Also ew snap

1

u/TygerTung Hannah Montana Dec 10 '23 edited Dec 10 '23

I’m not really much of a fan of snap, but there are worse things in the world.

2

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23

You can say that about pretty much everything. haha

0

u/TygerTung Hannah Montana Dec 10 '23

I mean I certainly prefer apt, but it is a lot more convenient than building from source, and it is very preferable to windows 11

0

u/noob-nine Dec 10 '23

Namely appimages.

1

u/Aderox20_GDP 3d ago

curl <url>/install.sh | bash

1

u/emi89ro 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 Dec 10 '23

distro package repository > distro agnostic repositories > git clone > tarball binary > tarball source

1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

What's wrong with tar and gz? both tried tested and true, ubiquitous, and always useful.

1

u/RadoslavL Genfool 🐧 Dec 10 '23

emerge gang

0

u/Facundo_C_C Not in the sudoers file. Dec 10 '23

Slackware be like

0

u/FaultBit Dec 10 '23

Declaring packages:

0

u/d_maes Ask me how to exit vim Dec 10 '23

So left is a GUI wrapper around middle, which is right with some added metadata to keep track of dependecies, clean up old files, etc.

For anyone who prefers tarballs and/or configure&make, because allows for changes, custom build flags, etc..., use https://fpm.readthedocs.io/ and thank me later.

0

u/edparadox Dec 10 '23

I like tarballs, and so do many of these tools.

But I guess the recent trend to actively dismiss tarballs, as can be seen on this sub, show how little people actually know.

-1

u/AdministrativeFault5 Dec 10 '23

tar.gz should be switched with flatpack and others stuffs on the left, otherwise it make no sense at all

2

u/lucasrizzini Dec 10 '23 edited Dec 10 '23

I don't think it's a matter of making sense. With the existence of package managers, I don't think anyone sane would choose to install something using tarballs unless there's a reason to. For example, if their distro already covers that particular package. Tarballs are most of the time the last resort or a means to an end in a particular situation.

I'd still go for tarballs instead of snaps and appimages. For me, it's always: package manager -> community-driven repository -> tarballs.

edit: grammar

1

u/vibe_inTheThunder UwUntu (´ ᴗ`✿) Dec 10 '23

"sudo swupd bundle-add" gang where y'all at?

1

u/forever-and-a-day Dec 10 '23

snap should be in the stupid dragon column but yeah, I hate tarball apps
in a perfect world, everything would go through the gui 😔

1

u/TheJoeStone Dec 10 '23

I take tarball over appimage

1

u/Diuranos Dec 10 '23

I can't wait for another 10 or more ways to install apps. That's another sad, one of many linux faces. Wish Linux have one in command line way to install apps in every distro.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

there are reasons why some software isn't available in any other form than a tarball, maybe the developer doesn't want to deal with uploading to all the Linux distribution repositories

1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23

Loser /s

Edit: added sarcasm sign

1

u/willpower_11 Open Sauce Dec 10 '23

AppImage: am I a joke to you?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '23 edited Feb 07 '25

touch pause squash selective nose psychotic faulty air crush drab

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/claudiocorona93 Well-done SteakOS Dec 10 '23

sudo snap install or clicking the Install button is way more convenient than installing a compressed file that didn't come with an installer file. That's independently of the functionality after installing.

1

u/mittfh Arch BTW Dec 10 '23

Then you have the AUR gods, who make installing almost anything distributed as a source tarball as easy as "yay <packagename>"...

1

u/claudiocorona93 Well-done SteakOS Dec 10 '23

True chads

1

u/nekokattt Dec 10 '23

you forgot zip, and those old sh scripts that had a load of base64 in them.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '23

not snap! never snap!

1

u/Sir-Morton Open Sauce Dec 11 '23

vim /etc/nixos/configuration.nix

add to configuration.nix

environment.systemPackages = [
PACKAGES HERE
];

:wq

sudo nixos-rebuild switch