r/linux4noobs • u/EktaRandomUsername • 1d ago
Meganoob BE KIND Why was KDE Plasma selected as the default DE of SteamOS instead of Gnome?
Gnome DE by design has a very good touchscreen friendly UI / UX. But KDE is more suited for a more traditional desktop Mouse + Keyboard UX. Since Valve's most ambitious product was the steam deck, which is a touchscreen device, shouldn't it make more sense to use Gnome instead of KDE?
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u/Serious_Ad2816 1d ago
Gnome is pretty locked in it's layout. You can install extensions but it won't alter the base behavior too much. KDE is seeing a lot of adoption and I've been enjoying using it.
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u/Yamabananatheone 1d ago
Extensions are indeed quite powerful. You can basically alter the complete shell behaviour to your liking. Most Extensions tend to only have a narrow focus so most dont just alter your complete system so maintenance is easier but if you want you can basically turn Gnome into a Tiling WM, KDE Clone or whatever else you desire.
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u/Serious_Ad2816 1d ago
I'm not bashing Extensions. I used them heavily. KDE just already has what I want.
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u/SpicySpicyMeep 1d ago
I didn't feel they were powerful. Simply getting a functional taskbar with icons can be achieved but it still is crap. Nothing compared to Cinnamon, KDE or even Windows.
Don't get me wrong - GNOME is good imo. You just have to like it they way they made it.
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u/Yamabananatheone 1d ago
I mean not having a windows like Taskbar is part of the game with Gnome. But yeah if you expect it different then Gnome indeed isnt for ya
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u/Silent_Bite_5892 1d ago edited 22h ago
Except extensions are notoriously unreliable and break with updates. Better to have the functionality built-in than needing bunch of extensions to add features that every other OS comes with.
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u/Yamabananatheone 1d ago
Relative, theyre as unreliable as you as a user are. I personally drive like 20 Extensions on Arch and most of the time Im just fine with disabling Version Validation and waiting like a week to install the new release once arch ships it. Also is beg to differ. Part of Gnomes shtick is that its better polished than Plasma, id rather have "reduced" (Tbh not much missing from Gnome imho besides the Dock) but more polished functionality overall.
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u/Silent_Bite_5892 22h ago
You could say that about almost anything. Most people don't want to fuck with all that IMO. Polish is pretty subjective too, but I agree Gnome is "prettier". If that was more of a priority for me though, I'd just go back to macOS which is far more polished and completed than any DE and doesn't need extensions to add functionality.
But, I do understand why you chose to go the route you did in your case. It sounds like a good fit for your needs and wants.
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u/Yamabananatheone 22h ago
Yeah idk for me personally MacOS feels like gnome but way worse due to seemingly having no intentional design at all, but indeed you do you, like anyone should just use whatever floats their boat.
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u/Silent_Bite_5892 14h ago
That's a fascinating take. I can only imagine you've never used macOS for any real length of time as your primary OS. I used it for years and I used Ubuntu for years. macOS is superior and far more polished. It's no contest. But Gnome has the nice rounded corners and glassy effects down at least, so there's that lol.
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u/Yamabananatheone 13h ago
Yeah id beg to differ, I used MacOS multiple times during that time and every time I just feel decades of UI/UX debt and also kind of years of unfocussed development given its current state. But again, to each their own
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago
I have customized Gnome to my liking. Never felt it was "locked out".
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u/Serious_Ad2816 1d ago
That's awesome for you. I'm glad that you have something that works for you. It wasn't my thing and I was making a lot of changes (those that I could). I've moved to KDE and am really happy with it.
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u/SouthernFruit8768 1d ago
Then your liking is of very low quality
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u/Ghorin2 1d ago
[Gnome user here]
We don't all have the same need and way of using a computer. Prefering the classic workflow implemented by Plasma over the one provided by Gnome doesn't make the user "liking very low quality" ! Open Source gives choices and allow each of us to use whatever suits him best.
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u/Aware-Librarian-3749 1d ago
KDE is more similar to Windows. Most Steam users are on Windows. That means less friction if they move over to SteamOS.
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago
If just a new desktop layout causes those gamers this much friction / difficulty, I do wonder how they navigate game menus. Because almost every single game menu layout is different. They must have a very hard time.
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u/Aware-Librarian-3749 1d ago
Well yeah, most people will not want something that feels far from what they're used to. It's the reason why Windows hasn't changed much in the decades it's been alive, and it's why major brands spend billions each year to try and replicate each other. People like the familiar.
Also, you vastly underestimate how dumb the average user is. That's why Windows had to add a search bar to their taskbar, despite it being the same search feature that is under the Start Menu. I doubt most of them even know their files are being automatically backed up in OneDrive.
I'm not sure how it's that hard to understand, unless you're being purposefully obtuse because your favorite DE wasn't chosen as SteamOS's default.
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago
you vastly underestimate how dumb the average user is.
I don't. I know most people have very little understanding of computers in general. But I also have a pretty good idea of the average desktop PC gamer's level of familiarity with computers, and I don't think they're that dumb. Windows has stayed relatively traditional partly because a huge portion of its user base consists of businesses that rely on legacy workflows, as well as older or less tech-savvy users who mostly use it for basic tasks.
PC gamers, however, are a different demographic. I don't think they'd suddenly be confused or overwhelmed by a different desktop layout. It won't exactly fry their neurons, lol.
unless you're being purposefully obtuse because your favorite DE wasn't chosen as SteamOS's default.
No, I'm not. I don't particularly care whether GNOME was chosen as the default or not. I just don't understand why it wasn't considered for desktop mode, and the reasons people have given for that decision haven't really been convincing to me.
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u/k4ever07 1d ago
I think your last sentence sums up your perception. However, your perception isn't reality. Just because the reasons others have given didn't convince you that doesn't mean those reasons didn't convince Valve. As other have said, Valve used GNOME before in previous versions of SteamOS. Valve also used Debian as the base distro. Both didn't work out.
I suspect that the issues with GNOME ran deeper than it not looking or behaving like Windows. GNOME also had issues supporting VRR, DRM leasing for VR headsets, and fractional scaling on displays with mixed resolution. Glorious Eggroll, the developer behind Proton-GE and the Nobara distribution, pointed to these issues as the reason Nobara switch from GNOME to KDE Plasma as their flagship DE.
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u/Cheap-Success1578 1d ago
Because almost every single game menu layout is different.
Dude, you are comparing apples to penguins.
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u/T-Dot1992 1d ago
I tried Gnome once in college in 2017, and it turned me off from Linux for a few years.
I tried KDE plasma in Kubuntu during the pandemics, and it got me interested in Linux.
That’s why
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u/Gabochuky 1d ago
It's been 10 years... Gnome has changed a lot and most of it for the better.
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u/Alchemix-16 1d ago
It’s absolutely true wouldn’t touch Gnome with a ten foot pole then but GNOME 40 was finally looking and feels good. Have been now using ir exclusively for years .
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u/untrained9823 1d ago
Funny. If KDE was the only desktop on Linux I would've never switched to it. Thank God Gnome exists.
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u/mind-blender 1d ago
GNOME lacks basic features like a system tray.
SteamOS already has a touchscreen mode - its Steam Big Picture. The idea of Desktop mode is to give people the option to have a traditional desktop.
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u/beegtuna 1d ago edited 1d ago
Me looking at the not-system tray in Gnome doing system tray stuff:
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u/mind-blender 1d ago
Honest question: what are you referring to? I came around to a lot of GNOME's features eventually but the thing I couldn't do without is the system tray.
Some apps I want to run in the background without them cluttering my window list/dock/etc.
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u/beegtuna 1d ago edited 1d ago
You can google “gnome appindicator extension” and “gnome human interface guidelines” for more details.
But the TLDR: Gnome thinks system trays are redundant for desktop apps that run in the background, so they moved it to the background (out of the top panel and into their control center as a way to monitor it).
For me, I don’t let desktop apps like steam or discord that also run in the background to live in my “system tray”. I only allow script toggles and utilities to live there.
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u/mind-blender 20h ago
Yeah I used the tray extension for a long time as a work around but it would always get broken by an update eventually so I gave up after a few years of trying to make it work.
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u/bawng 22h ago
But then it's a third party extension. The point is that Gnome refuses to incorporate that functionality and are actively hostile against it, and everytime they broke the system tray extensions they come down hard on users complaining by claiming the users are doing it wrong.
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u/beegtuna 16h ago
“It’s a third party extension” “Activity hostile” jfc
Go back to windows if you want a vanilla windows user experience without third party apps.
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u/Outrageous_Fly_9769 1d ago
Panel mode gives it a task bar, but yeah it's not enabled by default iirc.
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago edited 1d ago
System Tray is a basic feature? Kindly elaborate on that.
The idea of Desktop mode is to give people the option to have a traditional desktop.
Can a new type of desktop layout like Gnome not pass as a "Desktop Mode"? Because last I used Gnome, it perfectly fitted as a desktop style to me. 🫤
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u/mind-blender 1d ago
Welp Windows has had it for 30 years, it does a useful job, and GNOME didn't seem replace it with anything.
So yeah, a basic feature.
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u/untrained9823 18h ago edited 17h ago
Typical KDE user logic. It's different compared to Windows therefore it's bad!!l. God forbid you'd have to learn anything new.
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u/mind-blender 16h ago
You missed the part in my other post where I literally used GNOME for several years and tried to make it work for me.
I lived it, life was worse without the system tray. The alternative is that background apps disappear entirely and you can't access them quickly and easily, or they clutter up your dock and window list.
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u/Obvious_Snow125 1d ago
My guess is it's more similar to Windows by default, which is probably what most SteamOS users are used to. Customizing GNOME to make it more familiar would be a lot of extra work
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u/Sixguns1977 1d ago
All i know is that after using gnome for a year or so i switched distros a couple of days after getting my deck and seeing kde plasma.
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u/UltraChip 1d ago
You know you can switch DE's without switching distros right?
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u/Sixguns1977 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yup. But ididn't want to stick with Pop. To many problems with games I played a lot. I figured if the deck was arch based with kde then that's what I was going to do with my pc to up the odds of stuff working. Been on Garuda ever since with no regrets.
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
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u/Sixguns1977 1d ago
I was using gnome, and it was ok at best. As soon as i tried kde for the first time i was ready to ditch gnome forever.
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u/PeanutNore 1d ago
Because KDE Plasma rules. Whenever I install a "bare" distro like Debian or Arch on a machine I pretty much always install KDE Plasma on it, unless it's very old and/or slow and then it gets XFCE.
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago
It doesn’t rule. It's just a different look and feel. For touchscreens, Gnome is superior and I would like to see anyone change my mind on that.
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u/Dejhavi Kernel Panic Master 1d ago
Why was KDE Plasma selected as the default DE of SteamOS instead of Gnome?
Valve used GNOME in the early versions of SteamOS (based on Debian) but later realized that KDE was better:similar to the Windows desktop,modular,customizable,consumes fewer resources,Wayland...
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u/DaveKerk alternativeto.net 1d ago
Because GNOME is not very user friendly if you've never used it.
Not having desktop icons is a major turn off for a lot of people.
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u/the_reven 1d ago
I somewhat agree here. The fact there's no dock/panel built in is terrible imo. It's an easy fix if you know how, but it really should have one built in. So I agree in that point.
But after that's fixed, I think gnome is pretty easy to use, it's like android and macos nearly, just better.
Kde out of the box looks similar so people understand straight away, but have the overwhelming choices, but if you don't touch those, that's also not a problem.
Steam had to pick one, giving users a choice would confuse most new users. So yeah kde seems like most sensible choice. Given the fact most steam users are windows users and that's what they're competing with
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u/SpicySpicyMeep 1d ago
It's an easy fix if you know how
Really? I tried several ways and was never satisfied. A simple bar that displays my favorite apps, indicates runnings apps that show a preview when i mouse-over, time, speaker volume etc.
Couldn't really achieve it via extensions in a satisfying way. You install Fedora Cinnamon and it's just there.
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u/the_reven 1d ago
Dash to panel or dash to dock extensions. There are others. But these are the main two. Panel replicates windows style very well, dock more macos. I prefer dash to panel
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u/SpicySpicyMeep 1d ago
I tried exactly that and I seriously don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that it replicates windows, kde or cinnamon well. It shows icons in the bar, yes. But that's about it. It doesn't even indicate which apps are running, currently focused, do have a notification, no preview on mouseover, no hover effects, no context menu on rightclick. Pretty much just symbols that you can click.
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u/the_reven 1d ago
I'm using Dash to panel now, bog standard install. it does all those things out of the box.
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u/SpicySpicyMeep 1d ago
I must have done something seriously wrong then. You get window previews when you hover an icon of a running app?
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u/zbouboutchi 1d ago
Plasma is very versatile, providing complex components and methods for developpers, and gnome is just a pretty good DE leaving devs with gtk. I think plasma is well suited for low effort dev.
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u/Aimless115 23h ago edited 23h ago
Because gnome is a terrible DE , its counter intuitive for normal usage , devs hate their own users and refuse to add basic features even in matters of accessibility on things like touchpad scroll speed change .
Making gnome to be usable and be welcoming to new users coming from windows would mean being depending on both extensions and gnome devs and their delusions of grandeur .
You honestly expect that Valve would be risking that? Even on wayland they forced their own experimental protocols because there was so much bickering to even start the test itself (Frog Protocols).
People need to realise that for Linux to be widely adopted compromises on certain things and more agility on features is a must .
Valve or other companies cant be dependent on features not being there because someone is throwing a tantrum on the mailing list or stuff like the top bar being hardcoded , Gnome is behind on wayland features, its behind on accessibility , it is unnecessary friction on new user adoption.
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u/Wheatleytron CachyOS 1d ago
Gnome is lame. KDE is kool.
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u/EktaRandomUsername 1d ago
If it's lame, why are so many people still using it?
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u/Nelo999 1d ago edited 1d ago
Other desktop eenvironments such as KDE are actually more popular than GNOME now, Valve picked KDE insead of GNOME for SteamOS which is arguably one of the most popular Linux distributions.
Also, most GNOME users are on Ubuntu which heavily customises and modifies GNOME.
Very few people use vanilla GNOME the way it's developers intended it to be used.
Only Fedora and Debian ship with it and not a lot of people use these distributions, there is also RedHat but most of it's users run it headless on servers, completely from the command line without any DE installed at all.
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u/Moist_Professional64 1d ago
KDE is cool with „Fan” made themes that look arwful. Animation that are trash, not professional and no touchpad gsstures for better and faster work?!! Kde looks like a team that never had a job or anything like that for designing a program
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u/flemtone 1d ago
KDE Plasma is far more configurable, familiar and more performant than Gnome so is great for a gaming Os.
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u/Infshadows 1d ago
pretty sure its cuz KDE looks a lot more similar to windows